2013 NA’s site discussion

 

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This topic contains 51 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Jonathan Nye 4 years, 11 months ago.

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  • #1908

    Old School
    Participant

    At this year’s NA’s, there was discussion about how to best determine the future locations of the NA’s. There was general agreement that the more formal talks should begin now instead of the winter. So let’s get at it!

    One suggestion that was met with general approval was to hitch a ride with LYRA for the next 3-5 years. LYRA is a very well run regatta with some smart people and lots of history behind it. The regatta revolves around host clubs, with the 2013 event being hosted by National Yacht Club in Toronto. The regatta is always hosted during the week following Youngstown Levels and Sail Oswego, so it could make for more reasonable logistics than travelling long distances for a single event. Its format syncs nicely with the NA’s precedent format.

    Of course, the Lake Ontario boats are generally supportive of this idea. It does not do any favours for those of you who are not here. But, it is pretty difficult to say how many of the Lake Ontario nexus would travel long distances, so if it were held elsewhere there might be a thin showing.

    Other options include visiting our friends in Quebec, who have driven to Ontario for the last three or four years in a row, or somewhere in the NYC region.

    #2991

    Old School
    Participant

    Wow. The amount of insightful and scintilating conversation is too much to comprehend. Lets keep it down to a dull roar here, people.

    #2992

    Derek Lay
    Participant

    Despite the concentration of boats in the area, I find it very hard to argue in favour of Kingston until we can address the almost-criminal cost of boat launch/recovery for visitors. If the LYRA clubs can offer a reasonable package price for the weekend, it would probably be cheaper to drive elsewhere than to visit Kingston. I missed the regatta this year, but have participated in LYRA regattas in the past and would probably vote in favour of the that option if none of the owners want to petition for their clubs to host the NAs.

    #2993
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    Detroit NOODS…everyone has to travel..launching is free. OR how about using the Port Huron to Mackinac as a long distance test? Half the course is Canadian.. :)

    They are using PHRF in the Mac. Offshore equipment is 2 and a liferaft. If we get 7, we could probably get a scratch OD fleet.

    #2994
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    Forgot to add…could have ‘our race’ within the PHRF fleet as NA and take iron from the Mac as well.

    #2995

    Old School
    Participant

    Most clubs that host lyra have their own hoist facilities, so those costs are minimized or eliminated.

    I would love to have the PH-Mac as our distance race, with courses at Mac or PH beforehand. But, the liferaft would be an issue for the majority of competitors.

    #2996
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    Yeah..I know. ChiMac doesn’t mandate them, but uses ORR for rating..which is not friendly to O30’s.

    rental or borrow is the way to go.

    #2998

    Derek Lay
    Participant

    Group rental rate?

    Does the stability requirement only apply to the ChiMac? Might be a bit of an issue if the OD boats didn’t make muster with the requirements.

    #3000
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    ORR has a stability minimum and Chicago adopted it. Bay View is using PHRF..no stability index. Olson’s are approved. ORR outboard Olson’s automatically pass the stability via sistership measurements. The ORR handicap is not Olson ‘friendly’…Port Huron is the better bet for Olson’s.

    #3005

    Chris
    Participant

    Correction, this years PH-Mac does not require life rafts for the shore course. Can use a PLB, cost about 300.00.

    #3006
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    I’m in for Port Huron. I can’t beat the ORR game, so I’m all for the PHRF fleet with a bunch of O30’s in it. That way my IB will get 3 seconds from you OB’s! Shore course with no raft..why not! I’m pretty sure Opus Dei would enter. Let’s check out raft rentals before we write off the Cove Island course.

    #3007

    Old School
    Participant

    Hmmmmmmmmm……
    Bruce, think you would be able to help organize some course races somewhere up there after the mac????? You would have to get out the grinder…
    Personally, I would rather do the cove course, but really don’t want to carry a raft.

    #3008

    Chris
    Participant

    Another good distance race out of PHYC is the Huron 100 international. Sarnia yacht club co-sponsors it. It is the last weekend in June or first weekend in July. We have used it for years as a pre-Mac tune-up. It is 100 mile trapezoidal course in southern Huron. The crane and gin pole are free, except the PHYC harbor is closed the two days immediately prior to the Mac, so get in the weekend before the Mac or use the marina across the Black river $100.00 to put in. All that said we are doing both the Huron Challenge and the Chicago Mac for 2013.

    #3009

    Chris
    Participant

    I would change my plans for 2013 if other Olsons were in the PH Mac. I would just keep my boat in the marina between the two races(cheaply) and plan on doing both Ph races.

    #3010

    Chris
    Participant

    My raft is out of date but if we had a fleet on the Cove course I would get recertified.

    #3011
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    Old School…glad you asked. YES..there is a regatta in Harbor Springs the next weekend that caters to Mac racers. On Saturday they do a 23 mile course and on Sunday they do windward/leewards. (Ugotta Regatta http://www.ltyc.org) Little Traverse Bay is about 50 miles by water from Mackinac Island. Your road gang could bring trailers there instead of Mackinac. Irish Boat Shop has a travel hoist. There is a deep water ramp, but depths are down.
    They run OD races on Thursday and Friday. Could be a perfect venue. Great free party on Friday night.

    #3012
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    Chris…take a look at your ORR rating. Add ten points to it and look at section 7 in 2012. I was giving time (.863) to 87 PHRF boats. Let’s do PH!

    #3013

    Old School
    Participant

    Again, hmmmm…

    Do you think the ugotta people would be willing to play with us, and have a few days of course racing for our fleet? Or, is there any way we could get our own course racing going somewhere, starting on the Tues (I am always optimistic) or Wed?

    There are two big factors I see in play here. First, is logistics. ALL boats would have to travel in. We had a hard time getting fairly local boats to travel to Oswego, so I am not sure if we can make a trip to Sarnia happen. Then, we would need the shore crews to shuttle the trailers around.

    The second big factor is time committment. To trail the boats in, commission, sail the mac, wait a few days for the ugotta, race the ugotta, decommission and haul home, it is approaching a two week committment. This will be a tough sell for the families, even with using Mac Is as a lure.

    I am definitely hoping to do one of the macs next year, regardless of the NA’s. Might have to give up some other events, though.

    #3014
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    I might be able to motivate my club (my son is the RC) to accomodate us on Lake Charlevoix. Add 20 miles by water from Mackinac. Lake Charlevoix would be a great venue..flatter water, shifty..a true test bed. We could schedule them mid week after the Mac. Those that wanted to go back up to Ugotta could by the weekend for an extended race experience. It would be worth it! Port Huron to NW Michigan is not that far (150 miles?) once you are rolling, it is an easy trip. “Up North” traffic is nothing. Boyne City offers a close by State Park for camping. It has a great beach and warm water for the families. (Young State Park) We have a YC owner of a marina facility that could make retrieval deals, I’m sure. (travel hoist)

    #3015
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    To repeat: Ugotta runs OD racing on Thursday and Friday before the weekend event. Last year the OD’s were J/111 and Great Lakes 70’s. They set a shorter course for the J/111’s, so we could use that length. It is TOT/Lake Michigan PHRF handicap. OB’s would be 105 and I’m 108 with IB.

    My experience is that you deliver your boat to the next venue on Wednesday (too pooped on Tuesday) So Thursday and Friday at Ugotta would be my first choice. (PH Sat, Sun, Mon. Tues off, Wed deliver, Race Thurs, Fri, Sat, Sun.)

    #3016
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    Do I get a head start in OD? ;)

    #3018

    Jonathan Nye
    Participant

    Much of what is above sounds appealing. But as an alternative either in ’13 or beyond, would hope the class would consider western Long Island Sound in the fall. Just completed our 46nm “Gearbuster” race. Not as truly full on epic as some but memorable nonetheless. 12-18 knots building on the way out with the apparent at 110 (or so) behind. 12 knots of boat speed; +8 knots average for the leg. Close fetch back for 15 miles until the front came through with a 90 degree veer resulting in 8 miles on the wind. Breeze built to 22 – 25 with near 30 knot gusts.

    My point is this is a terrific race at a terrific time of year and would be a great race to build an NAs around. Not too many other O30s in the immediate area (a few) so would require some travel. Can guarantee the hospitality would be second-to-none (Club has won US Sailing’s St. Petersburg Trophy for event management). Free hoist usage and I’ll bet we could get a very modest entry fee (enough to cover meals). The Commodore has charged me with securing championship-level events so this fits right in.

    It’s toward the end of the year (Columbus Day weekend) so people could do the event and pack up for the season when done.

    Jonathan

    #3019

    Chris
    Participant

    Bruce’s plan seems to good to be true. The crew is exhausted on Tuesday after the PH Mac, and the after race party is Tuesday . You don’t want to miss the ARP, I’ve done both Macs and the PH party puts the Chicago boys party to shame. It’s a great bonding time at a very beautiful place. My crew brings the spouses up and it is a true family time to remember. This should not be a hard sell. It gets in your blood, I’ve done about 25 macs. Wednesday to get to the venue then race Thursday, Friday Saturday, skip Sunday for travel. I could make this happen.

    #3020
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    I’m in for the shore course; then Ugotta Regatta in Harbor Springs (LTYC.org)> I can arrange the OD for Thur/Fri. Then we do the Saturday 25 mile race. We can leave Sunday out of the O30 series, but the hard core can continue for the Ugotta Series. I like the idea of no raft for the shore course. The EPIRB can be the PL style as long as it transmits GPS locations as well as the EPIRB signal. Chris, what kind of launching available at Port Huron?

    #3021

    Chris
    Participant

    The PHYC has a crane and permanent gin pole. It is free. They close the harbor, where the crane is two days before the Mac. They do this to prepare and transform the grounds to handle the prerace party affectionately known as ” Boat Night “. Boats are rafted up, up and down the Black River( the river the yacht club is on). So if you want to put in a day or two before then make a reservation with the marina ( a stones throw from the yacht club), and pay 100.00 bucks to drop in and borrow my gin pole(free). The marina is set up for a large dry storage of motor boats. They mount slings on a very large forklift. They have put us in three or four times its not a big deal. The name is Desmond marine.

    #3022
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    Gin pole…I had one for my J/24, but never considered one for the O30. How tall is it?

    #3023

    Chris
    Participant

    That’s a good question. Tall enough for both rigs. I have the original Spud craft single spreader. I mount the gin pole one foot in front of the partners and it has a foot to spare on the hoist. I’ll take a w.a.g. and say 21 feet. I’ve gotten to the point where I can put the mast up myself, it’s a snap with three.

    #3024

    Old School
    Participant

    Bruce, I appreciate the thinking you have put into this. It sounds like a good plan…I just have doubts that we could get enough boats to commit to it. I am going to send an email to everyone who has participated in the last few years, asking them to chime in.

    I am, however, confident that if it was hosted at LYRA (National Yacht Club in 2012, in the heart of Toronto), we would see around 10 boats.

    Chris, can you send me a pic/drawing of your gin pole setup? It would be good to have it archived here on the site. I attempted one this spring using a 15 foot pole, and it did not work well. On our dry run, we could not comfortably get the butt end down with the hoisting line at the 14.5 foot mark on the mast. Having the extra 6 feet on the pole would have made all the difference, I think.

    #3026
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    Two subjects here, so I’ll start a separate forum for the PH/Mac Race.

    For the NA..estimated dates for this event? If we do the PH/Mac…take out July for the NA’s.

    #3027
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    Toronto would be okay if in mid/late August. Still think the Detroit NOOD’s offer the best venue for all. Early June. It is not that far for Kingston boats and about midway for me as well.

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