Asymmetricals vs Symmetrical

 

Home Forums General Olson 30 Discussions Asymmetricals vs Symmetrical

This topic contains 21 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Bruce Hubble Bruce Hubble 6 years, 8 months ago.

Viewing 22 posts - 1 through 22 (of 22 total)
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  • #1824

    Jason Adamson
    Participant

    What are people’s opinions regarding sailing with the Ayso vs Sym? This is w/o an oversized pole or sprit. I know locally we have a few O30’s that have gone to Ayso’s but I can’t tell if the switch is worth it.

    #2233

    Al Holt
    Participant

    A few years back I tried A-kites. I bought two from North and began the season here with them. We can elect A or S with no penalty, but cannot carry both w/o a penalty.
    My conclusions: The Olson 30 has blazing speed on a reach with an A-kite. There is less tendency to be unstable and the drive of the kite is awesome. It’s a ride you won’t forget. However, on a windward-leeward course with drop marks, we could not find a wind angle that made it pay. Our boats do so well nearly straight downwind…given any breeze at all…that jibing back and forth like a Melges 24 just didn’t work for us. Half-way through the season we went back to the S-kite. On the other hand, if the local PHRF committee allows both with no penalty, I would carry the A-kites on board, for sure. They are a real kick on the Olson 30 on a reach. I used only the one design legal pole.

    #2234
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    I’ll give a report next week. This weekend we have a regatta that on Saturday has very long runs…some may be on the beam (known as “tour of the bay”). LMPHRF does not have a penalty for carrying both any more, so I’ll carry both. I agree with Al, for W/L courses, the A is too much work…unless it is blowing stink, which will send the apparent wind far enough forward to use it. Mine is an A3…fairly small. So we use it for 70-90 apparent where the genny is at a weak angle and not good for the runner.

    Work on your phrf committee..I did. I asked..”if there is no penalty for having an A Sail, why does it matter which one you fly?” It worked.

    #2235

    Al Holt
    Participant

    Work on the PHRF committee? They know very well that anything I want is to my advantage. Being fair is not an issue here.

    #2236

    Al Holt
    Participant

    Work on the PHRF committee? They know very well that anything I want is to my advantage. Being fair is not an issue here.

    #2238

    Jason Adamson
    Participant

    Luckily PHRF So Cal does not hit you for carrying both Ayso’s and Symmetric kites.

    #2239
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    So…Lake Michigan and So Cal don’t penalize…yep..go to work on your PHRF committee’s. That ‘rule’ is not fair to you and the sport. You can only fly one at a time…so which is faster? Neither! There is no pen for A or S, so why does two on a boat matter?

    #2240

    Old School
    Participant

    No penalty for carrying both on L. Ontario either…

    #2241

    Al Holt
    Participant

    I know. I know. Our PHRF committee appears not to be swayed by facts or by what others do. For example, the Olson 29 is rated level with the Olson 30 on the Chesapeake. Arguments about newer, improved boat and how the boats are rated elsewhere are completely ignored.

    #2242

    John Schnellback
    Participant

    Here is a link to a fellow racer in Vancouver who has just installed a north A .

    #2243
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    I sure would like to know the measurements on that A Sail video. Mine is a smaller sail for sure!

    #2244

    Derek Lay
    Participant

    I’m pretty sure the fixed sprit would cost a second or two on your PHRF rating . . .

    #2245

    fitzee
    Participant

    You are right…it rates 93.

    #2246

    John Schnellback
    Participant

    A Kite dimensions as in video
    DH 1.5 LUFF 41.984
    DF 22.96 LEECH 33.128
    D1 13.9
    D2 24.085
    D3 26.19

    #2248
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    My A3 is:
    ALU: 37.40 LUFF
    ALE: 33.83 Leech
    AMG: 14.28 Max Girth
    AF: 18.75 Foot

    Used at 70-110 apparent.

    #2249
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    John, do you use the A sail when running? If so..just when wind is up or always?
    Mine is cut smaller for reaching legs…but wondering about a larger A Sail. I don’t use a sprit, so no penalty. Is the sail area about the same as a Sym AP? I saw 93 for a rating, but what is a stock O30 in your area? Lake Michigan PHRF is 105 for an OB. The sprit would probably take a 3 to 6 second penalty in LMPHRF, but not 12.

    #2250

    John Schnellback
    Participant

    Sorry i an just re posting information i was given when i inquired about this A kite for Fiasco. More information is on sailingx.com and you could contact the owner of Lithium for more information.

    #2252

    Jonny
    Participant

    http://www.doylesails.com/racing/downwind/asymmetric.html

    We ordered the A2 as in lighter wind its faster for us to sail deeper with the Sym kite.

    #2253

    Derek Lay
    Participant

    Does an A-sail ever pay off for course racing? I would think that it would be a big help for LD races, but is it any faster for windward-leeward sailing? With our hull shape, we’re only getting some of the advantages that the newer boats get.

    #2254

    Al Holt
    Participant

    We couldn’t make it work around the buoys. I believe we do better sailing almost straight downwind with an S-kite that we could by jibing back and forth with the A-kite. We never found a wind angle that paid. I think part of it is that we used a class legal pole. That doesn’t get the tack very far ahead of the boat. The new boats set up for A-kites have long sprits that greatly increase the projected area. Yes, they have better hull shapes, but I think the big difference is the long sprits.
    Al

    #2259
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    I didn’t get a chance to use the A Sail this weekend as expected. The “tour” race was cancelled..no wind. On Sunday, it was W/L’s, so I canned the idea of ‘learning’ an A Sail during a buoy race.

    I delivered the boat home today (by myself)…used the auto pilot and flew the A3 with no main in 14kts of air. I hit 8.6 knots on the gps..impressive for zero crew and auto steering! I have to work on the single handed take down..sail got wet..hate when that happens.

    What was cool about the sail is that it DOES sail downwind pretty well. I started out at 120 apparent and the speed brought it to 90, then I turned down 20 degrees actual and was pretty much running downwind with the waves at 7.5 without the main. I gybed it probably 10 times with zero problems…I think I like it!

    The A3 could be a great weapon in a blow downwind…my conclusion.

    Now…how big an A1-A2 can you have?

    #2261
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    Who is sail # 7030 or 7020? This A3 came off that boat.

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