June 21, 2011 at 4:29 pm #1809
I had made a new main halyard several years ago with 3/16 tech 12 spliced to a 5/16 XLS tail. I was pleased with the performance but the tech 12 has just not held up to the UV exposure.
For replacement, I have been looking at V-100 (or possibly the T-900 line) What are most folks using these days?June 22, 2011 at 9:06 pm #2138
Interesting that you brought this up. I am in the process of replacing my halyards after 3 years of racing. I am going with the V-100 for both the main and jib halyard and Endura Braid Euro for the two spins. All in 8mm or 5/16. I had V-100 for the main for the last 3 years and it has held up pretty well to constant abuse. The end is getting some fuzzing. I always sky the halyards after every use to protect the core. I have them stripped for about 20ft to reduce weight aloft. For my new halyards I am adding dyneema chafe guard to all the ends for additional protection from the sheeves.June 24, 2011 at 2:46 pm #2140
I used Yale MaxiBraid Plus 5/16 for the Spinnaker, and Yale Crystalyne 5/16 for the Jib…I thought about stripping them, but seriously I rather have the longevity of a cover protecting the core over the weight savings. I also went from 3/8 to 5/16, I figured the weight gain was negligible.June 24, 2011 at 6:24 pm #2141
You could haul the halyard into the mast and have a retrieve line for sacrifice purposes. Anyone using line for a backstay? Size?June 24, 2011 at 7:24 pm #2143
I am using 1/4 Ultrex 12 – Yale (100% Dyneema SK-75) A little overboard if you ask me…with Ferrules instead of blocks…I think the 5/16 would have been sufficient.June 24, 2011 at 7:25 pm #2144
I meant to say 3/16 would have been sufficient.June 24, 2011 at 7:33 pm #2146
Dari: you are replying to my backstay question? If so..how often do you think it will need replacement? I have 3/16th for my lifelines…second season and they look great. I trust them a lot more than wire. I’m using Robline 75 Dyneema. Same stuff for backstay..hmmmm.June 25, 2011 at 2:19 am #2147
Old School has a 1/4 Samson Validator SKB, which is a vectran / dyneema 6300lb blend for the primary genoa. Secondary genoa / spin and 2:1 main are 3/16 SKB, 4800lb. Primary spin is 5/16 3400 lb poly…I really do not mind some give in the spin halyard. Thus far, I have not stripped them, just because I am too lazy to sky the halyards to protect the vectran.
I did switch to 5mm dux for my backstay last season. After a season and a half of use, it is showing a bit of chafe where the top batten smacks it, but otherwise not other visible wear. And yes…ferrules instead of blocks.June 26, 2011 at 6:11 pm #2148
@BH, yes, I am replying to the BStay Q. We just installed it and so not enough time has passed for a durability test…although, with the price of line these days, if it lasts 2 years, who cares the line costs $.87 a foot…just redo it.
@OS…we copied what the Melges24 have and installed a BackStay Flicker on top of the mast…in light air, the main always would get caught, one heavy batten and a small block, and that problem has been eliminated…
I will say this, I really like the Yale line, I like the solid color choices (6 different one) and it feels great, and there is NEVER any confusion about which line to trim…Splices pretty easy too!
DJune 27, 2011 at 3:19 pm #2149
Hijacking the original theme, sorry. BUT maybe I’m done with one question..how did you rig the line? SS thimbles at mast top I presume…but how about to the block at the cascade? Is this where you are using ferrules?
I’ve seen some boats put like an electrical shrink wrap over the line as a side note to prevent chafe from battens.
thanks!June 28, 2011 at 3:33 pm #2150
I did a SS thimble on the “Mast” end…then the ferruler on the other end. I used a total of 3 furrulers in the system…one on the backstay coming from the mast, one on the end coming from the port, then another coming from the starboard side…I actually use HEAT Shrink all the time around the boat…its pretty good to overlay the Whipped end of line…one extra layer of protection…Let me know if you want pics…I’ll be at the boat tomorrow.June 28, 2011 at 3:39 pm #2151
I would like a pic to see the three ferrules to see if it adapts to my cascade ok. I hate my rod backstay..ugly and doesn’t want to clear the batton if backstay is off. Have you considered a flicker? I had one for my rod backstay, but it wasn’t strong enough. If I go rope..it will come back!June 28, 2011 at 3:41 pm #2152
oops..missed your flicker comment.June 29, 2011 at 11:28 pm #2154
I’d like to see the pics too. Might drop in to see yours too Scot if you don’t mind. I’ve still got a wire backstay and need to install a flicker anyway so now may be the time to switch.
What are people running for purchase on their cascades? We were out in 20-25 knots last night with a light crew and I had it cranked on a lot more than usual. Has anyone ever seen one compromise the mast?June 30, 2011 at 1:49 pm #2156
I will attempt to remember to take some pics of my backstay tonight. I believe it is around 48:1
When the conditions are strong, we just crank everything on, and don’t look up. Ever.
(original single spreader)July 3, 2011 at 1:36 am #2166
For those looking for backstay info, I have set up a new page on the site with images.
http://www.olson30.org/the-boat/tips-and-tweaks/backstays/December 14, 2014 at 6:51 pm #3603
do people have their halyards set up with two spinnaker and one genoa or the other way around? if two spinnaker do people cross them below?December 14, 2014 at 7:26 pm #3604
Two spinnakers. We have the port spinnaker halyard exit the mast on starboard for hoisting. Is that what you are asking? We cleat it on the mast. Fairlead above the cleat.December 15, 2014 at 1:26 am #3605
yes, that was the question.
we are replacing the original wire-rope (!) halyards so we need to figure out what we’re getting. seems like for distance races it would be preferable to have two genoa halyards over two spinnaker? you seem to do both bruce, what do you think? pretty sure some of the info i got here was fairly recent and from you. some posts refer to primary and secondary genoa halyards, some to port and stbd spinnaker halyards.December 15, 2014 at 1:46 am #3606
You can hoist a genoa on either spin halyard. Just make sure it is as high tech a line as the jib halyard.
The buoy races we do round to port, so we use the port halyard the most, hoisting from the ‘high side’. On distance races, if you want to change jibs, use the starboard halyard and make sure it is the high tech one. This leaves the ‘hoisting’ side free for the spinnaker. We cleat both spinnakers on the mast. The jib goes through a clutch near the cabin top winch and has a jam cleat as well for higher wind/tension.
side note: On distance races, we have abandoned spinnaker peels. We can douse and launch faster.December 15, 2014 at 1:47 am #3607
6mm line is max needed, btw. Dyneema blend a core minimum.December 15, 2014 at 2:49 am #3608
the rigger suggests 6mm vectran for the jib halyard. so the question is do we make the secondary jib halyard (stbd sheave – also used a a spin halyard) the same spec or lesser spec rope. for instance dyneema or dyneema blend instead of vectran.
also, how important do you think it is to go with a 2:1 main halyard? what do you gain or lose depending what you do?December 15, 2014 at 3:14 am #3609
Do both in vectran.
2:1 main? Why? I put a stopper in the rope groove at the white band. We hoist to that and we are done. We use a free tack with a line around the boom to tack it. (Quantum did this) The Cunningham does the rest. Main should be vectran as well.December 15, 2014 at 3:30 am #3610
not sure why the 2:1 main halyard, to be honest. seems overkill.December 15, 2014 at 3:42 am #3611
yep..a 31 ft main.December 15, 2014 at 6:48 pm #3612
Bruce, why do you like vectran over Dyneema?December 15, 2014 at 9:03 pm #3615
We use a 2:1 main halyard. It’s led below deck with no access to a winch so thought it’d be good to have the extra purchase when needed.
Some will argue there are compression benefits. Don’t believe it. First the O30 mast is so stiff, the main halyard tension isn’t going to affect it. Second, the whole argument is fallacious. Adding purchase does nothing to change the compression on the mast.
Vectran for the main and genoa halyards because of it’s better creep characteristics.
We use centerline (back up genoa) and starboard wing (primary genoa) halyards made from 1/4″ Yale Crystalyne (covered). The port wing (primary spinnaker halyard – crosses over to the starboard side of the mast) is 5/16″ Endura (partially stripped).
JonathanDecember 15, 2014 at 9:32 pm #3617
that all sounds good to me. makes sense about the 2:1 since you’re essentially hoisting by hand. curious why you put the primary genoa on the stbd sheave instead of the middle one.
one thing you find about choosing ropes – there seem to be sooo many kinds of rope available it can be dizzying. vectran, dyneema in various grades, dyneema/vectran blends, dyneema/polyester blends, covered (double braid) and non-covered (12 strand). then add to this about 5 major manufacturers who all make very similar products. so for a given kind of rope – let’s say vectran for a main or genoa halyard – there might be 5 or more options that are pretty much the same thing with different names. hard to keep track of everything.
i am not sure why it’s called creep instead of stretch, but basically the vectran will not creep or stretch once you tension the halyard – or if it does it will be miniscule. you might need to re-tension a dyneema genoa halyard especially if wind speed increases. this is how it was explained to me.December 15, 2014 at 9:45 pm #3618
I’m beginning to believe some masts have different exit setups. I have a centerline sheave that is below two upper side by side spinnaker exits. The lower exit is for the jib as the other two are above the forestay.
Vectran and Dyneema have very comparable strengths. Creep is not really stretch. It is the ‘setting’ of the fibers during first usage. Vectran is known to not creep much. Dyneema creeps a bunch, unless you get the heat set version. Creep is NOT a factor for adjusted lines. It is a factor for rigging that is static. A backstay will lengthen on you if dyneema. You need to know the creep and make an allowance for it. Once it sets..good as gold! I really like the heat treated single braid from New England. $2.05 a foot from Defender for 3/16″. 9400 lbs! Very little creep.December 15, 2014 at 9:53 pm #3619
I really, really like endurabraid for spin and genoa sheets. I uncover 50% of spin sheets using 5/16th (8mm) for size. The uncovered, coated dyneema is waterproof and very, very light. We don’t carry light air sheets.
I use that size for handling, not strength. I’m thinking of two new spin halyards and probably will get endurabraid 6mm and strip those!
Don’t forget that you can have high tech for 1/2 of halyards and 1/2 low tech! Save some bucks!
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