Interesting handicap question

 

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This topic contains 11 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Old School 6 years ago.

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  • #1889

    Old School
    Participant

    As most of you know, I am taking Old School into the LO300 http://www.lo300.org This race is a circumnavigation of Lake Ontario, so we can expect to see all points of sail at one time or another. If the prevailing west or south-west winds are experienced, we will see a 130 mile run, a 25 mile beam reach, a 120 mile upwind, finishing with a 20 mile fetch.

    Looking at the current and recent past PHRF entries, we are difficult position. It would appear that we, at 108, will likely be the fastest, but shortest boat in PHRF 3, or possibly the slowest and shortest in PHRF 2. PHRF 3 includes a bunch of 35’+ cruiser racers. PHRF 2 includes a few more modern 35-40′ racer-cruisers, and a Soverel 33.

    The organizers have indicated that they will allow us to race under IRC with a provisional number equal to Panther’s endorsed certificate (not received yet, but will be around 0.98). In the Toronto area, most relatively serious race boats have moved to IRC. The potential IRC fleet we would race in would still see us as the smallest and probably slowest boat, against some J-109’s, J35’s, Beneteau First 30 and 10R.

    I don’t have any IRC experience at all, but at this time I am leaning towards joining their fleet for this race. What would you do? Any insights would be welcome.

    #2857

    Jim Saylor
    Participant

    108,WOW, we have a 96 in Hawaii.

    #2858

    Lilya Vorobey
    Participant

    99 Sf Bay

    #2859
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    105 for OB’s on Lake Michigan. I suggest before comparing PHRF ratings you look to a boat to compare regions to: J/24 is 168 in Lake Michigan.

    IRC..Opus Dei raced IRC in the Port Huron to Mac. Not sure how he liked it. Attached is his older IRC for references to your boat.

    #2860

    Chris
    Participant

    IRC seemed fair to us. We had just one nemesis, a C&C 35 Mach II. The boat was owned by the same family since purchased. It is maxd out in everyway and the two sons are long time match racing sailors. It’s one of the best sailed boats in the race. We owed them about ten minutes in a sixty hour race, and in three tries were unsuccessful. On the fourth try they were not present and we won our class.

    #2861

    Old School
    Participant

    Chris, is your .973 in class trim? Panther’s provisional is .98. They should have their official this week or next.

    BTW, with the LO phrf of 108, remember that we can count the number of times we get to surf in a year on half a hand….

    #2862

    Jonathan Pollak
    Participant

    Chesapeake is 108 and always has been. Flat water or square faced chop. Almost never surfing. Truly paining downwind takes 25 kts of breeze.

    #2863

    Chris
    Participant

    We have a full certificate. Our boat is heavy, so class trim is not accurate. I would not want to race a 3600 lbs California boat with my 4100 lbs. this is IRC weight which we weighed with a few extras then class ( but i believe our boat is heavy) Yes we sail symmetric , 155%, and a main slightly smaller then the Ullman class main that came with the boat. If we sail the Chicago Mac regularly we would go with the larger main(mostly downwind). Ours is six inches smaller at fifty percent. It gives us a thousandth less on the rating and clears the backstay ever time.

    #2905

    Old School
    Participant

    Update… Panthers IRC endorsed rating is .981. This is pretty much in OD trim, 7 crew. This is the provisional rating the organizers would allow me to race at with my five crew. This would indeed place me as the slowest IRC boat, with the next slowest being a Beneteau First 30 at .994.

    http://www.yachtscoring.com/event_scratch_sheet.cfm?eID=572

    The IRC fleet is a mix of racer-cruisers, with a Mumm30 and a OD35 thrown in. My PHRF fleet has me, a Beneteau Figaro, an Express 35, a couple C&C 35’s, and a Catalina 42.

    Which fleet would you rather race in?

    #2906

    Bill Vosteen
    Participant

    Scott,

    I would stay in the phrf fleet, the speed potentials are much closer. If you’re with a Mumm 30 and OD35, they’re so much faster that you’d have to have a race with all light air or something similar to be able to compete with them.

    Have you compared the IRC ratings against the phrf TOT ratings to if the treat you favorably?

    Good luck,

    Bill

    #2907

    Old School
    Participant

    It would appear that the IRC rating is comparable to a 105 PHRF, so pretty close to being in line.

    #2913

    Old School
    Participant

    They have posted the splits for the IRC fleet now. My IRC fleet would be a pair of Beneteau First 10R’s (IRC 1.004 and 1.013), a Beneteau First 30 (.994), a pair of J35’s (1.021) and 1.012) and a Thomas 35 (1.027).

    Compare that to the Catalina 42 (PHRF 111), Beneteau Figaro (102), pair of C&C 35’s (123) and an Express 35 (114).

    Neither option would be considered ideal. I think I will flip a coin.

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