LD Safety Requirements

 

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This topic contains 17 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Al Holt 6 years, 5 months ago.

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  • #2346

    Bill Vosteen
    Participant

    Regarding the Lake Ontario 300, Dave Poulin sailed this on Contender in the double-handed fleet at least once. Could be more. This was when they held it about a month earlier than they do now when the lake is considerably colder.

    #2347

    Old School
    Participant

    If you go by the letter of the safety requirements, some modifications have to be made to the boat for the LO300. Particularly having the bilge pump emptying into the cockpit drains. There were a few other smaller things as well, like securing the stanchions.

    That being said, I am playing around with the idea of doing it next year. Kind of torn between it and one of the Mac’s.

    #2348

    Old School
    Participant

    @ Bill – I believe they did it once on the 30 (I wasn’t invited…jerks!) and at least once on the 40, along with both the macs, the super mac, and the Trans-Superior.

    #2350
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    Regarding bilge pumps…technically the bilge exit is out the stern drain and not directed into the cockpit. Sure there is some backup, but that is handled by the second drain. Chi Mac has this rule…but it applies, in my opinion, to direct discharge into the cockpit to have the separate cockpit drains serve to drain the cockpit. Olson 30 is save as is unless some inspector disagrees out there?

    Regarding stanchions: If you have the stock aluminum ones..buy a new set of stainless ones. They press fit and do not come out without a bunch of working/twisting. Garhaurer 24 1/2″ is what I bought after a couple of the aluminum ones broke. The stainless won’t break and will take a bit of bending (damn dock posts!) They are not heavy; nice chrome; $30 each.

    #2351
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    Another thing on stanchions: I got rid of my wire lifelines. Dynemma 75 qualifies for offshore racing specs now, so do yourself a favor and get rope! I used Robline 3/16″ which is good to something like 4000 lbs. I’m on my second season and looks like it will be good for a couple more before replacing due to wear/sun, if then. $100 does the whole boat easily and is DIY! Wire is not safe.

    #2352

    Peter Scott
    Participant

    @Old School – if you decide to do the LO 300, I’d be interested in hearing about any mods/prep you guys have to engage in on a seperate thread (if you decide to enter). The items you noted are ones I had wondererd about as well from the ISAF Cat 3 regulations.

    As far as the NA’s, if we could combine with a few other events within a East Coast to Kingston type distance (1500 km) and find a reasonable place for dry storage of the boat between events, Ghost crew would be very interested in participating.

    #2358

    John Schnellback
    Participant

    Regarding bilge pumps…technically the bilge exit is out the stern drain and not directed into the cockpit. Sure there is some backup, but that is handled by the second drain. Chi Mac has this rule…but it applies, in my opinion, to direct discharge into the cockpit to have the separate cockpit drains serve to drain the cockpit. Olson 30 is save as is unless some inspector disagrees out there?

    Check ISAF Offshore special regs 3.09.6 ( A bilge pump outlet pipe shall not be connected to a cockpit drain. ) So need to check NOR to see what regs they go by. If ISAF need to put thru hull in stern for bilge. John

    #2359

    Old School
    Participant

    3.09.6 is what I read in the LO300 safety requirements. I requested, but did not receive an interpretation request.

    #1844

    Old School
    Participant

    Has anyone ever done the Lake Ontario 300 on an Olson? Ghost crew has been having discussions about making a pilgramage from the East Coast up to the lakes some summer to do the NA’s and then something else a little different (for us) lake the Lake Ontario 300. If we ever make the trip, it’d be nice to string a few events together – that would pretty much be our summer.

    #2361

    Peter Scott
    Participant

    In addition to the bilge pump, the other items I noted that might be an issue (from the Category 3 regs at http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/OSR2010Mo3081209-%5B7985%5D.pdf) are:

    – 3.12 Mast Step : The heel of a keel stepped mast shall be securely fastened to the mast
    step or adjoining structure

    – 3.14.3 f) Pulpits and stanchions shall be permanently installed. When there are sockets or studs, these shall be through-bolted, bonded or welded. The pulpit(s) and/or stanchions fitted to these shall be mechanically retained without the help of the life-lines. Without
    sockets or studs, pulpits and/or stanchions shall be through-bolted, bonded or welded

    Guess this could be simple as line from lower lifeline to toerail.

    – 3.14.3 h) Stanchion or pulpit or pushpit bases shall not be situated outboard of a working deck. For the purpose of this rule the base shall be taken to include a sleeve or socket into which the tube is fitted but shall exclude a baseplate which carries fixings into the deck or hull.

    I’m guessing the interpretation of working deck ends at the toerail?

    – 3.17.1 A toe rail of minimum height 25 mm (1 in) shall be permanently installed around the foredeck from abreast the mast, except in way of fittings and not further inboard from the edge of the working deck than one third of the local half-beam.

    I didn’t measure but the toe rail looks somewhat less than an inch.

    – 3.21.1 Drinking Water Tanks
    a) A yacht shall have a permanently installed delivery pump and water tank(s):

    With all the Olson’s that have done the various West Coast to Hawaii races, people must have come up against these before and either made modifications or received excemptions. It would be interesting to hear about these.

    Although not as glamourous as talking about brands of sails, I’d be interested if anyone knows of a brand/make of porta potti that fits in the built in compartment for it in the v-berth area.

    #2362

    Old School
    Participant

    This list is why I asked for an interpretation last year (or was it two years ago?) As I indicated, I never did receive a response. I will try again.

    The document http://www.yachtscoring.com/event_documents/434/LO300%20Equipment%20&%20Safety%20Regulations%20June%2010-2011.pdf indicates that participants “shall meet the requirements” of Cat 3.

    The “standard inspection card” http://www.yachtscoring.com/event_documents/434/LO300%20Standard%20Inspection%20Card%20%2823%20June%202011%29.pdf does not go into much detail.

    I have heard from previous competitors that, if this card is signed by a flag officer of your club, there are no further inspections at the event. In fact, previous competitors have indicated that they were pretty underwhelmed by the safety aspect of race management.

    All this being said, here are my comments to the individual topics:

    Mast step – easy retrofit

    Stanchions – yes, going to run some dyneema between lower lifeline hole and toe rail. Remove as soon as race is done…I like having the ability to pop my stanchions out. We will not mention the fact that stanchions are supposed to be vertical…

    Stanchion base – I interpret “working deck” to be as wide as the gunwhale, so we are good there.

    Toe Rail- stock one should be fine.

    Water Tanks – Old School has a 2 gallon poly tank “plumbed” into a hand pump on the port cabinet. The tank is usually removed, leaving just the pump. Looks goofy, but it is very handy for hanging our trash bag from!

    #2363

    John Schnellback
    Participant

    Most Olsons that do longer distance stuff around these parts also sink a bucket into port cabinet for the sink requirement. Make it removable, a good can recycling center and can be used as a sink when on the longer races. For Pac Cup you need min 38 ltr water in a solid tank the rest portable. And the gimballed single burner stove meets the requirements around here.

    #2364
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    To all: the ISAF rules are the strictest and can be moderated by Sailing Instructions/NOR. For instance…the ISAF mentioned double braid dyneema..but Chi Mac says:

    13. Lifelines — Boats must have taut double lifelines made of stainless steel wire and/or single braided Dynema rope, supported by permanently installed stanchions. Upper lifelines shall be no less than twenty-three (23) inches above the working deck. No vertical opening shall exceed
    twenty-two (22) inches.

    14. Stanchions — Boats must have permanently installed stanchions. Stanchions shall be straight and
    vertical except that:
    1. within the first two (2) inches from the deck, stanchions shall not be displaced horizontally from the point at which they emerge from the deck or stanchion base by more than 3/8 inch and,
    2. stanchions may be angled to not more than ten (10) degrees from vertical at any point above two (2) inches from the deck.

    20. Bilge Pump(s) — Boats shall have at least one (1) permanently installed manual bilge pump operable with all cockpit seats, hatches and companionways shut. Unless permanently installed, each bilge pump handle shall be provided with a lanyard or catch or similar device to prevent accidental loss. Bilge pumps shall not be connected to cockpit drains unless the combined system
    has sufficient capacity to handle the maximum combined volume. Bilge pumps may not discharge into a cockpit unless that cockpit opens aft to the sea.

    I’m sending these Chicago specs to illustrate that safety rules are regatta specific. My boat is up to specs for ChiMac.

    #2365

    Bill Vosteen
    Participant

    Scott,

    Dave Poulin only did the Chicago MAC once with his Olson 30. He decided he needed a larger boat after the Chicago Mac on the Olson 30. Dave liked the long distance stuff and the Olson 30 is cramped with a full crew. I think you’re right that he only did the Lake Ontario 300 once in the double-handed fleet. He did both the Chicago MAC & Port Huron Mac on Rambunctious, his Olson 40 along with the Super Mac and the Trans Superior.

    #2366

    Old School
    Participant

    Curious…did you actually measure the stanchion angle? I suspect that if someone wanted to be really picky, they are probably more than 10 degrees from vertical. Hopefully people are not that picky on a 30 year old boat…

    Regarding the bilge pumps, the LO300 does not have the “combined system” qualifier. How the heck does CYC quantify “sufficient capacity?”

    I am not trying to be devils advocate here, but attempting to arm myself with answers should LO300 people make a stink.

    #2367
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    Old School: you are right…who is the qualifer? Plus: vertical from deck or vertical to the water? I believe it is from the deck angle…my stanchions are straight…no bend.

    Capacity…capacity of the drains to handle the bilge water faster than you can pump? I don’t think that is an issue on the O.

    Comfort on an O30? We did 5 last time. Will go with 6 next. There really is no comfort on a sailboat in a long distance race. Last year I was on a Bene 36.7 with 8. Butt pain is exactly the same. Besides..I found the pipe berths in the O more comfy than the wet cushions in a flat berth on the Bene. The key to a long distance race is ear plugs and a mask for daytime sleeping.

    #2458

    John Schnellback
    Participant

    Now Fiasco never had floorboards when i purchased her.PO never seen them either so i am wondering what is the weight or board thickness so when i make up some they comply. thx John

    #2459

    Al Holt
    Participant

    The floorboard thickness is 1/2 inch. I’ve never heard they are to be weighed. I have a CAD file of replacement floorboards I made for my boat. If you will email me directly I’ll send along the CAD ( .dxf) file and some pictures. Mine are slightly modified (improved, I think) from the originals, but you could use my file as a starting point if you want to be authentic. al@holtmarinesystems.com

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