Templates

 

This topic contains 15 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Old School 6 years, 6 months ago.

Viewing 16 posts - 1 through 16 (of 16 total)
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  • #1818

    Jason Adamson
    Participant

    Has anyone made keel templates for the Olson 30? If so how did you do it? Are there any available to loan out? I am wanting to check to make sure of symmetry on my keel, is there a quick check to do this without building a template?
    Also what are everyone’s thoughts on thru hulls, are they necessary as far as performance measuring. What I mean is, do you actually use the knot meter or is everyone relying on GPS for boat speed. I am thinking of removing my knot meter/depth and filling in the holes.

    #2173

    Al Holt
    Participant

    We rely on our knotmeter for help in determining whether we are in fair or foul current by comparing it to our GPS SOG. Current considerations are important where we sail.
    We also tempt fate sometimes to get out of foul current by sailing into the shallows. The depthfinder is pretty handy in that case.
    If we can find CAD drawings of templates, I can cut a set or two on my CNC machine and send them along to those who want them. I’d ask to be reimbursed for materials and shipping.

    #2174

    Jason Adamson
    Participant

    Al, if we can find them that would be great. I am sure there are a couple owners here in So Cal that wouldn’t mind sharing costs if we could get a set for this area. Anyone know of a CAD drawing available?

    #2204

    Jason Adamson
    Participant

    No one has access to the templates?

    #2207

    Old School
    Participant

    I have a set of plywood templates that I made when fairing my keel. I am sure they are not the Seattle CSC templates, but they seem to work. If we don’t get some professional templates, I would be happy to offer up mine.

    #2208

    Jason Adamson
    Participant

    Old School, did you find that your keel was out of spec before you did the templates?

    #2209

    Old School
    Participant

    When I first began fairing the keel, we took templates off both sides. The keel proved to be quite assymetric, but within the tolerances. I then proceeded to thin the fat side to get more in sync with the thin side, but found that I was getting into a bit of lead. So, I built out the thin side a bit, faired it as well as I could, built new templates to that side, then brought the fat side to those templates. Epoxy barrier coat and antifoul. Not a fun job overall, but I did learn a fair bit about faring. I probably had about 40 hours of my time into it.

    Interestingly, my rudder was even more assymetric…

    #2210

    Old School
    Participant

    I should also indicate that I did the keel, rudder and total deck redesign when I first bought the boat, so I have no before/after comparisons. I feel fast, so I must be!

    Between the keel, rudder, minor bottom work (more this winter), rigging and deck redesign, I put about 150 hours into it in the first spring.

    #2211

    Jason Adamson
    Participant

    Thanks Old School,
    My biggest concern is that the keel is asymmetric. I am guess the only way to figure this out is to build my own templates. Any tips or things to watch out for when building them?

    #2213

    Old School
    Participant

    Use a flexible batten to get everything as fair as you can.

    We used thin plywood for the templates (3/16 or so). We found that scribing and cutting gave a very nice edge on the top of the plywood, but that the bottom edge had lots of wobbles where the saw blade was bending. So, on the other side of the keel you have to fair to the “bottom” of the template on that side.

    Here are a couple of pics: The dark side is the fat side. This pic was taken after I lowered the high spots with a dual-action sander. You can see where the lead was starting at the bottom and sump areas.

    The light picture is of the thin side, about half way through the process. Of course, I did not take after pictures…

    #2217

    Todd Downey
    Participant

    KeelGate started in Seattle in themid 90’s. If anyone has the templates it would be John Rahn. The Seattle owners decided that the thin side was the correct side and they all shaved down the lead on the fat side. In doing so they were able to bring the total boat weight down to the minimum. Blue Star has a fat keel. It was fattened ion the flat side by the previous owner. He decided to shape it like sa surfboard fin. I dont think it is right but it works. I asked yacht designer Alan Andrews if I should thin down my keel to the minimum thickness. His reply was “If you are going to sail in Seattle on flat water it would be smart to thin it down. If you are going to sail in waves, leave it alone. The fater foil will reatach the flow faster thru the waves.

    #2218

    Todd Downey
    Participant

    All being said. It doesn’t really matter, sometimes the ugly keels win. Vendeta won the Nationals with an asyo keel.

    #2222

    Jason Adamson
    Participant

    Thanks Todd, I just mostly am curious about being symmetric. I definitely don’t want to shave off any lead.

    #2226
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    Here is the reply I got from the previous (only) owner on keel work:

    Long ago in a galaxy far away…. In Dallas in 1988…. I had the keel stripped to bare lead and faired to the design templates using AwlGrip epoxy fairing compound. Then it was skinned w/ 2 layers of cloth (epoxy resin of course) and barrier coated w/ 2 gal Interlux 2001. Lots of long boarding and blocking involved. The shop that did it (now long gone) was the go to shop for J 24 keels at the time. Hopefully that job will last a long time being as it’s all epoxy. Last time I saw it, it looked pretty good. How’s it holding up?

    OEM Olson 30 keels were faired w/ Bondo (no shit) , skinned w/ 1 layer of cloth and finished with gel coat. They were faired and finished beautifully and signed by the head keel guy, but were not really water proof. This was however, the accepted way of doing keels in Santa Cruz at the time and all the builders ( Olson, Moore, and Lee ) took great pride in the fairness and finish of the foils on their boats. Because all small race boats (Moore 24, Santa Cruz 27, Olson 30, Express 27) were dry sailed at Santa Cruz harbor this was not thought to be a problem. However, when the boats were left in the water continuously, the keels could act up. It was not unusual to see large blisters develop – happened to me. The only real way to fix it is to strip off all the polyester based materials and start over like I did in ’88. When you hear guys complain about the keel shape on a boat they just bought, keep in mind these boats are 30 years old in some cases. While the keels were fair when they left the factory, no telling what kinds of repair jobs have been done over time.

    #2227
    Bruce Hubble
    Bruce Hubble
    Participant

    It is holding up great Jim…forgot to add! Maybe my keel is “the one” to template?

    #2228

    Old School
    Participant

    I wonder which “design templates” they were using? I suppose that in 1988 it would have been possible to get the originals.

    Want to trade keels, Bruce?

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