Ray
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Never mind- found one!
Hi, Marc- if that’s your photo above that Keymaster posted, I can’t quite make out any forestay.. At any rate, I believe your forestay toggle should be attached with the long pin the fixes the sheaves in place and it should run underneath the halyard guard. As many times as I’ve summited my own mast (I’m usually facing forward), I can’t really recall, but it shouldn’t come in contact with the guard when attached to the stem fitting down at the bow.
Same configuration, but move the genoa cars forward until the sheeting angle looks about right and telltales break evenly. I have a simple forestay (no Tuffluff), so to minimize the amount of time I have no headsail, I’d run new sheets (I have two pair) then swap out as fast as possible.
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This reply was modified 3 years ago by
Ray.
Thank you for the great advice, guys- you’re probably going to think I’m nuts, but I’ve put in an order with Sail Technologies here in St Pete. I did it for several reasons- for one, I know the owner (Tom Barry) pretty well and I trust him. Two, our “house appropriations committee” (aka my sweetie pie), who I know even better than Tom and love more than anything else in the world (even more than sailing) vetoed the sail request bill before it got off the floor. That, and one of my crew who has tons of O30 experience (on the first one ever built back when he lived in SF as a kid) advised me to go with Tom and all of the reasons why- besides being local. Only time will tell, but I have declared myself fairly well here in our phrf fleet, so I should be able to see some differences in performance relative to the other boats… hopefully, in the right direction.
Just spoke with John- man, that guy has a LOT of energy! He’s going to get back to me with a specific quote, but since he’s not done much US business lately (since the crash in 2009 and lots of his US customers sold their boats), he’s not exactly sure what a Kevlar sail would cost. The price above was for a Dacron sail (which is out of the question), so he’s going to get back to me in a few once he figures out the numbers. The sad thing is that he buys cloth as you pointed out, from the US, so he’ll be charging more for the sail. That being the case, if Ullman is having a nationwide sail (not just up in Newport), and could probably order a sail from down here- we have two lofts; one in Sarasota, the other in St Pete. I’ve got an email out to Keith Magnussen asking if there is a difference between lofts (opinions vary widely between Quantum lofts), so we’ll see if that’s even a good idea.
Just called the KSL loft back and a nice gentleman with an English accent answered the phone.. He knew a little about the sail cloth, but couldn’t really speak to the prices and fiber types, but said John will be back soon. I’d really like to compare apples to apples, so we’ll see what the aramid fiber cloth prices out for. My best reference is the Ullman website- they’ve got a complete cost breakdown for all 3 sails- kevlar, aramid and carbon. I really would prefer something with some longevity. We’ll see soon.
I’m assuming he meant US$’s. Given the “you get what you pay for” philosophy, I’m tempted to go higher (if my sweetie will let me, of course)..
Man- my problem (besides trying to hang on to my hard-earned cash) is racing primarily phrf, so I have no real way to gauge my progress.. That, and I kinda suck as a racing sailor! Anyway- I have an old North 3DL #1 (with hanks) that I’m dragging out of the closet for Thursday night’s race. I’ll see how it fares and decide. The great thing about this upcoming race to Cuba (late Jan 2016) is that there looks to be 3 Olson 30’s racing, so I’ll finally have some basis for comparison.
Holy cow- I checked out the Ulman link you posted (has a hotlink for sail quotes); a new #1 is around $4000 without discount. John just got back to me and here’s what he replied:
>> Things are well up here. I can’t complain. $1800 is pretty cheap.
>> The best I can do is a light mylar crosscut material. It is a
>> polyester fiber sail and would be pretty good for you. I think the
>> lowest I can get it to is about $2400.Really.. they’ll offer a fall discount on O30 sails? I would have thought that would be for sails they make in bulk (to shred inventory of stuff just sitting on shelves).
Thanks, Michael- I looked into Intensity yesterday (funny- I also need a new sail for my Laser), but decided against it since I sail almost exclusively class sanctioned races on that boat.. I just gave a quick shout to my buddy over at the Quantum loft in Charleston. I was half-way committed to Sail Technologies here in the Tampa/St Pete area (I had a quote for a mylar #1 at $1800), but I’ve heard so many complaints about the poor shape and inability to get good trim that I’m doubtful. I’d rather not spend so much on a sail that’s a hindrance like that and just deal with the “hole” I have in my current sail inventory. We’ll see what Quantum says..
Just gave him a call- nice guy, but told me “dude, we’re looking at roughly $2700 for that sail”. Thank you though, Mike!
Almost forgot about this little issue.. I think I finally fixed it for good with a soft shackle. I made a bunch of them, some larger than others, but use the smallest one (2″ loop) and it’s not popped off yet. I just started doing this since moving to Tampa (summer sailing has yet to produce wind > 10 kts), but so far so good.
quick question about tapered spin sheets.. Don’t they need some sort of shackle guard to keep them from slipping through the jaws of the pole? I’m just going to put eye splices in the ends of mine and use soft shackles to keep weight down, but there’s not enough bulk there to keep all of it from pulling through the pole jaws. The clew ring might catch, though.. any ideas?
I guess the real question should be- does adding anything to the ends of the sheets matter if you’re using soft shackles that just collapse when the guy runs through the pole jaws to the clew ring?
I know, Bruce- I’ve probably read your post at least 6 times today from a question someone was asking a while ago.. I’m trying to stay way under $2/ft if I can get away with it. So far, I’ve found Samson’s MLX at $1.80 and it approaches the strength of Endura Braid. Still, at 7200 lbs breaking strength, the sail will rip long before the line does..
Sorry- I think I may have stumbled on the answer.. didn’t realize the Flight line is actually a “blended” core (dyneema and probably polyester). The 10mm stuff is still plenty strong enough, which is what I want.
I went a bit bigger (1/4″) about 2-1/2 years ago. Very little wear is evident, and they are very soft and comfy.
Hey, Marc- welcome! I’ve raced in Charleston in a big phrf fleet (against J120’s, several beneteau’s, J111, etc…)- you’ll excel in light air, which I’m sure you may already know and should be able to out-point just about everyone, but will suffer ddw and can get waterlined very easily (my experience against lots of boats with asyms). What the previous owner of my boat advised me (and I learned the hard way) is never let the boat heel more than about 15 deg- you’ll really start sliding sideways, more than most boats do. Good luck!
Ray
You may not remember, but it’s possible I might not have mentioned it- I am NOT replacing the top bearing as it is in near perfect condition (no wiggle at all and looks almost pristine). So- I have ground the bottom bearing down enough to fit the rudder post with the bolt just enough to clear the hole in the rudder head. I may still be able to squeeze those spacers in, but then the helm will likely be “squeeky tight”… I’m guessing, but I bet I’m correct. If they are that important, then I will just sand a bit more off of the lower bearing- I’m pretty sure I have at least another 1/16” there that I think I can afford to lose without the rudder scraping the hull (easily that much). Capiche?
Sorry to keep floggin’ this horse, Bruce… All is now installed. In the end, I needed to grind away most of the 1/4″ of extra bearing (lower bearing) since I could not properly seat the rudder post up into position to allow the retaining bolt to slide through the rudder head holding it all together. It is a fairly snug fit, but I’m thinking it may eventually wear itself down and loosen up as it ages. The first sail will tell the whole story, but I do have one question… I forgot about the two plastic rings that were up top (between the rudder head and the deck), but I think squeezing those in now, might be kinda tough. Are they absolutely necessary?
One more silly question I have, though– if I do as you suggest and not trim the excess off of these new bearings (they are about 1/4″ longer than the originals), there will be that much more clearance between the top of the rudder and the hull. To my knowledge, there was no rubbing beforehand (even though it looks like it in the photo, which I think was just from the entire rudder/post assembly floating upwards and scraping the hull while sailing). Does a little extra clearance do anything to performance at all?
Thanks, Bruce- that’s clear. I added to the shaft because there was quite a bit of play from grooves that I am guessing resulted from just rubbing against the bearing over the years since 1982. You can see the photos above– quite a bit of play between that bottom bearing and the shaft, but none at the top bearing.
Hmm.. still seems like I’d have a bit of a time trying to control it… Maybe a half pipe of pvc of the right diameter (bit bigger) would work. What about the binding issue when the delrin swells?
Bruce- I sanded my rudder post (after applying some thickened epoxy) and it’s a tiny bit out of round when I slide the new bearing down into place. You mentioned that you want a tight fit (using hammer and block to seat the new bearing), but if there’s even the slightest swell from water absorption (for the lower bearing), won’t it bind while sailing (more important in light air)? Also- how the heck do you manage sanding by hand and keep everything in a straight/true/in column fashion? Make a sanding jig out of pvc, maybe??
Hi, Chris- Yes, the new bearings will prevent that, but they need trimming a bit- they are about 1/4″ longer than my originals. There really wasn’t much rubbing going on normally (the rudder floats up and down the shaft a bit, explaining the rub marks on the top). I’ll trim it so that it’s not quite a short as the originals (mainly so I don’t rub bottom paint off), but there was the perfect amount of up and down play before I pulled it off of the boat- almost none. Just about all of the play in my rudder was side-to-side, and mainly in the bottom bearing.
I am king of making too much of almost anything! It all came out so easy, probably less than 2 minutes not including time hunting for tools and climbing up and down the ladder. The upper bearing is well seated in it’s location, but appears to be in great condition (no wiggle in the post there either), but the lower bearing has lots of wiggle room and slides right off– hence the play in the rudder. I haven’t located the new bearings since our move to Tampa (they are in a box somewhere in this house, probably with the missing case of toilet paper my wife keeps bugging me about). Here are two photos- one of the lower bearing and one just of the post where it sat. There really is no groove on the post, but there is something flaking off that may be carbon powder. I’m thinking of filling in the dings where the shaft meets the rudder post after removing the flaking that you can see on the post. If the new bearings fit too snugly, then I’ll just sand them down a bit until there is < 0.25% wiggle room and call it a day.
One thing might help me get a better idea though- does the rudder post rotate inside the bearing or does the bearing rotate inside something in the boat holding it in place? Or do both rotate??
Thanks, Jiri- I’ve read a couple of data sheets on Delrin and it really absorbs just 0.25% at 24 hrs. I don’t have a good mental picture of how the post and bearings all fit together, but I’m dropping the rudder today and will have a look. If nothing else, I’ll either ask Buzz if he can have one bearing fabricated from HDPE (0.3% water absorption) or sand a little extra off to compensate before replacing.. I’m starting to wonder if it’s really all that big a deal if just about all O-30’s are using Delrin for bearings…
Ok- I’ve ordered the bearings from Buzz, and if I recall (we’ve since moved to Tampa from Charleston and they are in a box somewhere) they were black- which means they are most likely made of delrin. I just spoke with a local boat guy (where my boat is currently serving time until I can secure membership at the Davis Island YC) and he’s suggesting to me that delrin is the wrong material to fabricate rudder bearings from- they should be HDPE (high density polyethylene) which absorbs a negligible amount of water (as opposed to delrin, which absorbs enough water (6% maybe?) to create sufficient expansion to bind the rudder post… probably a bigger issue in light air. Does anyone know where the truth in this lies? Obviously, if everybody is using delrin, there must be some line of thinking where the percent of water absorption is acceptable if sanded sufficiently so it doesn’t bind the rudder in light air.
Hey, Bruce- I have not yet removed the rudder and post. I haven’t received the new bearings yet, so I’m going to wait a while and may be doing that after we move to Tampa (we’re in Charleston for another 5 weeks or so). I’ll look back at these notes when starting, so thanks you guys for the info. It’s a little crazy now with this upcoming move, so boatwork is a bit behind schedule until we get settled in down there.
Ray
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