Forum Replies Created
April 22, 2016 at 1:51 pm in reply to: 2016 North Americans July 21-24 CORK, Kingston, ON #4891
Anyone looking for crew? I and a couple of my old crew could probably be available.
flightline has significantly smaller core, and thicker cover than endura. Old School had stripped flightline as its working spin sheets, and stripped endura as its heavy air sheets. There is a very noticeable difference in light wind conditions, as the stripped flight is significantly lighter than endura. Funny thing we noticed…in 18-20 knots, the flightline seemed to stretch less than the endura! Did not seem right, but it was so. When we saw this, we stopped using the endura unless it was blowing 25-30. We never had an issue.
Old School was supplied with the stock Garelick mount and a short shaft motor. When in the down position, the prop made quite a nice rooster tail, but very little thrust. I took it to a shop and had new angle plates made to compensate for the transom angle. The plates we changed were the ones that the motor plate attach to. Took about an hour to source the right material and 10 minutes to make the plates. It made for a very clean modification.
Boats with the wedges behind the transom plate do not look clean to me, and I question if there could be some point-loading issues. BUT, and this is a big BUTT, they do make for excellent steps for reboarding!
Flipping forward is the only way to go. It allows the sheets to stay attached while minimizing water ingress from a conventionally mounted hatch. You need to build some sort of shim under the forward part of the hatch to elevate it above the hump in the deck. With the shim, the hatch will lay flat on the foredeck. No strut, which will just get in the way of stuff.
It most definitely does not look like either the upper or lower bearings that I replaced. What are its dimensions?
I actually think that for solo, it would make more sense to have the #2. The boats do not take much power to move. Once I raced against O’Naturel. He was DH, I had five. I carried the #1 in 10 knots, he carried the #3. We were quicker, but not as much as you might think!
An excellent option for SH sailing is to ditch the #1 altogether. Carry the #2 as your primary upwind sail, and take the rating credit! Probably worth 6 seconds. I think that when SH, the only time you would see an appreciable difference between a 1 and a 2 is in 3-4 knots of breeze.
#2’s take less energy to tack and stow. This is a big consideration when SH.
#2’s are absolute weapons. Old School sailed with AP#1 (which was pretty light), 2, and 3. In 14-18, a well sailed boat with a #2 will kill any boat with only #1 or #3.
I took a similar approach to Chris. Cardboard template to get angles of cabin, measured to get hole-to-hole distance between chainplates, then used a batten to plot curves between template tops and bottoms. I did not want it to follow the contour of the deck exactly…don’t like angles in wood. Used good marine grade ply and a bandsaw. No carbon or glass reinforcement…did not think it was needed with no angles. Bolted to chainplates then lashed to mast. I was planning on anchoring it down to the plate, but found that this solution seemed to work well. Mind you, Old School was relatively stiff anyways, so this was more of an insurance policy.
IF you are planning on keeping the boat in OD trim, the BOD is a good addition. If you do not care about OD, and you are going to replace the chainplate bulkheads anyways, then I would strongly suggest considering a full ring frame. With the ring, you would not need a BOD, and it will end up being stronger.
Obviously non-owner, but unbaised observers input here.
Just as a note of interest:
Racing around Amherst is the logical LD course. On Sept 13 LCYC will be hosting their annual Amherst Pursuit Race. This is a fun local race that brings out most of the Kingston area keelboat racers. http://www.marineoutfitters.ca/index.cfm?page=racing_amherst_info
They will already have a BBQ and party set up for this race. It might be an ideal event to tie into…will really cut down on the entertainment logistics.
Cons:1) LD race is on Sat, not beginning of event
2) It will be a mixed fleet, with staggered starts. There are not many boats in the area that rate 108, so the Olson’s will have their own start. You would have to contend with other boats around the course, but in my opinion, this would actually add to the race, not subtract!
3) Auto and boat parking will be tight. Will need to raft on Fri and Sat.
Regarding Loyalist – I have raced there lots and helped run a number of regattas there. I can confirm that the Hintons will do anything within their ability to make the event successful should you decide to go there. It is a nice small facility that would have a feel similar to Barrie did, except that it has no clubhouse to speak of. A tent would need to be rented. There is no kitchen there, so if you wanted a fleet dinner you would have to get it catered. Not a huge deal, and the Hintons would probably take care of it all.
Two things to consider about hosting there. 1) there is very little in terms of accommodation within 20 minutes of the site. The residential development there has reduced tent options, but there is probably still room to toss a few. 2) They are not a CYA club. Not a big deal really, as they have hosted a number of regattas without issue in the past.
Racing around Amherst would be fun, but you would need to use a couple of the navigation marks to reduce local knowledge benefits. For the course racing, the consistent back seen in the Kingston Harbour is not as much of an issue here, so the racing is a bit more tactical.
It would be a good event, but something completely different than the Can-Am or LYRA.
Wilby at Pride Marine has a mast tube, but I don’t think spreaders or rigging.
Golden Brown’s mast broke at the spreaders, so could work for a deck-mounted gin pole.
As you know, I don’t have a dog in this fight, but there is a good possibility I will still be involved.
8) SAIL DECLARATION AND CERTIFICATION: All sails for any sanctioned event shall be identified by a unique mark applied by the fleet measurer. All sails for any sanctioned event shall be listed and declared to the organizing authority prior to the event. Substitutions will not be allowed except in the event of obviously irreparable damage and with permission of the Fleet Measurer. Substitutions may be made for sanctioned events where individual races are separated by one week or more. All substitutions must be declared, listed, and approved by the Fleet Measurer. Only three of the declared sails may be purchased within the current calendar year, unless the boat was purchased within the current calendar year, in which case six sails may be new.
Historically, we have not made any special allowances for sails for the LD, and have held to the six sail limit. Storm sails are not included in the limit, and I would argue that a #4 is a storm sail. Any combination of sails within the six were acceptable, so if a reefable main were wanted, you might have to drop an extra spin or the #2.
Another issue is that there is a possibility that Bruce, our measurer, may not be able to make the event. As I said, I will probably be there, but just in case this does not happen, is there someone else who will step up? Glenn?
Registration is live. You guys need to figure out which (if any) LD course you do.
I played with my mast base a bit, and found that the furthest forward position (I forget the actual measurement) gave me quite a bit of weather-helm with my stock rudder. It might work well with the elliptical. I ended up moving mine back about an inch from max forward. I do not have the measurement handy.
You do need risers for the camcleats on the teak. I prefer the Harkens because I found the Schaffers to cut the line covers pretty quickly.
On Old School, the topper was led to a cam cleat on the mast about a foot off deck, which then had a simple cheap block attached to a horn cleat lower on the mast. The horn was a back-up for the spin halyard cleat. The block led the line from anywhere on the rail to the cam cleat, much like a swivel cam would, but without the bulk. In this pic the red with white tracer is the topper.
I did not weigh my rod when I took it off, but I doubt 4 pounds would be too far off the mark. 4 pounds @ average 18 feet off the waterline is huge! When I redid my rig a few years ago, I took everything out…conduit, wiring, wire halyards, etc, and replaced with modern stuff. I can’t tell you if it made a difference on the course, but I can say that it did not hurt!
There is a difference between amsteel grey and blue. Blue is sk75 dyneema, which is stronger with less creep than SK65 Grey. Other than that, yes, core materials are pretty much interchangeable between manufacturers. Braiding techniques will give greater or less diameter of the core vs cover material, and this is what gives different characteristics for the doublebraided lines. For single braids, there is negligible difference UNLESS you compare heat-set lines like DUX and traditional lines like Amsteel. There are big differences between these!
The cordage I used on Old School was vectran/dyneema blend for upwind halyards and double braid poly for the spins. I switched to a stripped straight dyneema for the genoa halyard last year because I found some cheap, and was having issues with the cover splitting on the vectran/dyneema blends (more of an issue with the cover than the core!)
This discussion is about backstays. I would NEVER use uncovered vectran as a backstay, as it is highly susceptible to UV degradation. If vectan is used in stripped halyards, it is advisable to sky the halyards if they are not going to be used for a while.
Dyneema (amsteel or dux, etc) has very good UV tolerance and a high melting point, so neither sun nor heat should factor into your decisions.
I have uploaded the jpg, psd and both revu and renfrew fonts onto the Olson 30 Information page.
From my post a year ago:
“I went with 7mm Dux, 16500# breaking strength. The rigger suggested that the line should have a minimum of 300% (others say 400%) of the of the rod BS in order to minimize stretch. The rod that I took off my boat was -4, around 5600#.”
The 300% was to minimize stretch. As you know, stretch in any line is dependant upon the % of BS. Lower %, lower stretch. Once you have your backstay dialed in, it is very nice to not have it move! If you use 1/4
amsteel BLUE (not gray), at 20% BS (1720#, well within reach with most 48:1 purchases) you have 0.7% stretch. Does not sound like much, does it? Well, .7% over 30 feet is (30*12*.007) 2.5 inches. Two and a half inches is HUGE variation! And this does not take into consideration the shock loads pounding upwind into waves.
My Dux would be operating at a bit less than 10% BS, with significantly less stretch. I am sorry, but I could not find the % stretch, but it will be much less.
If you would be okay with a few inches stretch, then go for the less expensive amsteel. It is a third the cost of dux. I figured that the extra $80 was a small price to pay.
The riggers suggest you should have greater breaking strength in order to minimize stretch. This is why I went with Dux.
Just for the sake of clarity, the founders cup race in the last email is not part of the NA’s. but it is scored for the LYRA overall trophies.
EYC and Youngstown are not part of the NA’s either…….
I forgot to mention that the LYRA committee is considering something different to attract more eastern boats. They are considering moving the start of the Founders Cup to Piction!!! Yes, Piction! This race, if it were to proceed, would occur the weekend between EYC and Youngstown. So, we could potentially have:
July 11-13 EYC in Picton (one med distance race and two days of courses)
July 20-21 Founders Cup (125 miles to National YC (I believe))
July 27-28 Youngstown (two days of courses)
July 31-Aug 4 LYRA (Freeman plus three days courses)
Note…there is no way in hell Old School would do this schedule, but it could be fun for those more hardcore (and without family commitments) than I.
The committee wants me to see what interest level there is amongst Olsons. What say you?
The LD portion of the NA’s has been in place since the competition’s inception. It is an aspect that is pretty unique in any NA’s, and one that I fully support. It tests a different set of skills than what someone typically sees at a regatta. In my opinion, it would be a shame to lose this aspect of the event.
Yes, it does add some logistical work and additional time off. But, I question your implied premise that its inclusion lowers participation. Last year, when there was some debate about including the Freeman, I ran a survey. Granted, this sample is biased to those that were relatively committed, and it is a small number, but it is some data none the less. In that survey, 3/5 wanted the Freeman, 2/5 wanted something shorter, 1/5 said they ONLY wanted the Freeman, 1/5 said they really did not want it, and 3/5 said they really did not care, tell them what to race and they would race it.
With the LD options presented this year, it is my understanding that both the long and short courses will share a start on the Wed evening. So, changing this race’s length would not affect the length of the regatta.
Most Western Lake Ontario boats (of all racing classes) already have LYRA on their sched. It is an annual thing for them (at least, when it is on their end of the lake). So, the real question is would changing the LD component of our NA’s change visiting boats. Being as they are already essentially committed to a week, I doubt the race is a big deal for them.
It is us, the middle-distance travellers that this most affects. I am in support of it, but will not speak for others.
All this being said, I would be more than happy to run another survey to gauge sentiment.
I would never have someone behind me. Maybe just in front, but not behind. It is more difficult to lash them when they are behind.
We move around a lot depending on conditions. Starting position has foredeck in front of second stanchion, rest huddled closely behind. If it feels like the now is digging the chop too much, we slide back one or two (rarely) positions.
It really pays to get the transom out in the light.
Eleven votes have been cast, and it is now impossible for Harbour Springs to surpass Toronto, so Toronto is declared the winner. Thanks to those of you who voted!
Thus far 9 of 17 ballots have been cast. Get out the vote!
The ballot invites have been sent out to all boats that I know if that might be interested in the NA’s. if you have not received one, or if you know of someone that would like one, please drop me a line or post here
Okay…time to ramp things up a bit. I see two bonafide bids…one for LYRA in Toronto, and the other at Harbour Springs. Toronto is more of a sure-thing for numbers, but Harbour Springs would be really cool IMHO.
Are there any other contenders out there? Jonathan, how many local boats do you think you could convice to participate if WLIS was chosen?