Sail Lofts
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We’re in the market for new sails since our current North 3Dls are delaminating rather badly. Has anyone got any recommendations for a good loft in the North East that turns out good racing O30 sails?
We have been very happy with Quantum. Talk to Todd Downey in Calif.
Ichiban is considering a new main. If anyone is interested in a Quantum main as a group buy let me know.
Jim – Are you using the MX sails, or the Dacron for your main?
Andrew – If the timing works I would be interested. Ideally I’d like to have a new main for our two major regattas, but I’m not sure if any of the lofts can produce something by 24 August. I discussed sails with Wally Cross at the Michigan loft last year, but haven’t had a chance to call him yet this year to confirm pricing and delivery dates.
There is a Quantum rep here in Southern California. Quantum sails are used exclusively on Blue Star who wins every regatta so my objective is to get the same sail Blue Star has. We discussed with him during the 2011 Olson 30 Nationals a “group buy” to help with the cost. To make it worth doing we will need at least 4 or 5 people in need of the same sail. I’m in need of a new main. So lets come up with a list of people SERIOUSLY interested in joining me with this effort.
We have a Fusion M Main. Our newest is a Fusion MX #3 w/ Tafeta. We wanted a bit more durability.
Jim – I was leaning towards an MX main vice the M because I was worried about the durability of the sails. How long are you getting out of the M? Our 3Dls lasted a few seasons, but once the delamination started they went downhill extremely quickly in the 15-25 knots we’ve been sailing in much of the season so far. The exception is our #3, which has held up quite well to repeated abuse by the weather and crew.
Andrew – I intend to buy a main this week, so I am in if there is enough interest in the short term. If not, I’d be happy to consider other group buys as we will need to look at a few sails in the near future.
Call me crazy, but I think that for the majority of Olson sailors, going with a laminate main is overkill. Fifty to 100% more expensive for limited gain. You will get better performance hitting all the shifts with your firm finish dacron main than going laminate, and you can put the savings into other parts of the boat. Now, if you are in the position that you always hit the right shifts, then going laminate might be worth it.
This spring I purchased a one-year old laminate main. I honestly prefer the adjustability of my old, firm finish dacron to the firmness of the newer main. That being said, the new one is quicker when I do get it dialed in.
Of course, headsails are a completely different story. Buy the best laminate you can afford.
Regarding lofts, I have spent a lot of time in the past comparing and contrasting quality, service and price. Service is not much of an issue here in Kingston, because none of the big name lofts are within a two hour drive. I ended up going with Greg Koski at Ullman Cleveland. He trades ideas with Chuck Skewes. The Ullman list price is significantly less than Q, E or N. I have been quite happy with what they have delivered.
I own the sobstad sails loft in Barrie Ontario Canada. We have been using the Genesis sails for 5 years now and have been replacing them now since last fall. We have won the Kingston regatta twice out of the three times we have attended and should have won the other time except for a broken boom and a very serious medical emergency that prevented us from sailing the last day. If you want more info contact me or check of my web site. sobstad.ca
Regards Richard
Wreaking Havoc
CAN 18186Just a note about Richard. He is a great guy, and looks to have nice sails. It is just that I know that I will never be on the start line against Greg!
I have a Sobstad suit of dacron main/genesis platinums for #1 & 3. Bullet proof. I’m on my 4th long season and only the #1 is under consideration for this year. It is intact and trims great..just a bit softer than new. #3 is awesome. Main will be next after the 1. I agree..dacron..remember you don’t reef an Olson! My sails were built by Richard via Phil Kaufmann (UFO). I would do them again. The history given me is that they are 4th generation design out of California for Olson specifically. Zero repairs and we race HARD.
Forgot to add: the 3DL’s I got with the boat that were barely used fell apart in the first season. It wasn’t due to use..age kills them. The glues/laminate fell apart like dandruff…leaving only strings. I was way bummed. I have never seen anything like it in my 25 years of racing. They were 5 years old, but only up a couple of times…3 sails gone in a season.
Quantum world headquarters is only 50 miles from me. If we could get some deposits for spring delivery…just maybe we get a good deal. A local guy works there doing their repairs and graphics (TP52-Quantum). Let me know..I would like to buy local..but pricing is premium on single sails. They do discount around November.
Bruce – I spoke with Wally Cross at Q yesterday. He said that their slow season actually starts sooner than expected and that their pricing for Aug delivery can be discounted at their best rate. That said, I’m getting different (higher) quotes than Andrew on the left coast, so take it with a grain of salt.
It’s good to hear that the Sobstad sails have worked out that well for you. Our 3Dls are exactly five years old, haven’t been abused, and are suddenly useless mush. Last set of North sails I buy for a while. I’m going to give Richard a call tomorrow to see what he can do for me. ThanksDerek, Please call me. I am the Quantum sales rep in charge of the Olson 30 fleet. 805 890-6058
Todd Downey
Blue StarI’m only 50 miles from Quantum Traverse City…the world headquarters. Todd..can we coordinate any for a ‘group’ purchase?
Todd…with your expertise with the Olson..you should be the ‘go to guy’. Tell us more about Q for Olson.
Quantum Mainsail, I current use a 2009, 15000dpi Fusion MX. That is a laminated sail with 100% Twaron strings aka Kevlar. We have used this main for 3 National Championships and several PHRF races in the last 3 years. I am very happy with the way this sail is holding up. The shape is still very good and the lamination is still perfect. I expect to use this sail for 2 more seasons.
Dacron vs. Fusion MX mainsails. My take on this is simple. When a puff hits the boat you will see the leach of a Dacron main move, requiring a bit of mainsheet on. When the same puff hits the Fusion MX main the leech does not budge. I will pull backstay on first then add a bit of mainsheet to tighten the leech to the new backstay position. Dacron is $500 less than the Fusion MX:
To be continued:Todd,
I’m a little confused with the Q terminology. First question is what is the difference between M and MX? The Q website isn’t very clear on the difference. Also, when I download the 2011 Racing brochure I see MR prefixes for various M sails but no mention of MX. Going by the description of your main in your post, the MR 5000 seems to be the closest match but again no mention of MX (perhaps an omission?) Hope you can help me out. Thanks and congrats on your recent O30 title.Fusion M vs. MX, The difference is in the stringing process. These are both panneled sails, the M will have the strings lined up from one pannel to the next, the MX the strings will be stagered. As the stringing machine moves from pannel to pannel making a M sail it must stop and move over a little and then continue. Then when the pannels are overlapped and glued togeather the strings line up. While stringing a MX sail the machine keeps going without moving over. The sail can be strung in less time, saving you $$$, but the strings do not line up. Yes its confusing and that is why Quantum is no longer advertising the MX. We can still make them but are fazing out the MX in favor of the M aka MR. Yes the MR 5000 is the closest match. Buy one you will LOVE it.
With info from Todd Downey and help from the local crew at Quantum Traverse City (headquarters for Quantum Design), I’m going with an M purchase this winter.
Reasons: The durability should be up because the load paths are custom to the build of the sail. The Mx is more of a ‘stock’ material build…and thus has more strings to make up for that. The M will thus be a lighter, but stronger sail. I went with a single full upper batten. The shape/design specs will be Todd’s.
Pricing..work with your rep….a prepaid order may get an M for Mx price this winter. Now what do you think?
Regarding Dacron…Let’s get real..they poop out the shape in the first year. So they still look good, but can’t hold the desired shape. So saving $500 vs plastic is not worth it for competitive purposes. I think I’ll get 4 to 5 years on the plastic sail with almost assured design shape intact. My 4 to 5 year old dacron looks good, but the shape was gone a long time ago. It is worthy of delivery only. If your dacron is over two years old..time for a new one..so have you saved?
So this is an old thread but I thought I’d check to see if there is any life left in it. I have ZSails currently but about to need to start replacing. What is the current thoughts? I see a lot of older recommendations to check with Todd at Quantum. Is he there still? What about Ulman? I am in Kingston NY and a lot of the other boats up here (not olsons) have Doyle sails. Any thoughts from the hive mind?
Todd Downey is no longer with Quantum and is pretty much out of the Olson 30 picture now. Ullman has lofts in Cleveland and Buffalo (same sailmakers) and they make excellent Olson 30 sails (from personal experience). North in Toronto have plenty of fairly recent O30 sails made. Quantum in Rochester will make good sails. I know people in Kingston have had good experiences with Kingston Sail Loft.
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