Ray
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I would be surprised, but sure! I was talking with him about using wire (used to be called Dyform cable, but it just called compact strand now). Bear in mind, my thoughts on choosing stays and shrouds for my boat may differ from the group (and maybe yours), since we’re probably not going the rod route. You might not either by going with the double spreader– just ask him about the options.
Ray
ooo- pretty! He specifically said “Navtang”, which I assumed was something made by Navtec. Great stuff, but man is it pricey.. I’m hoping to get lucky with this replacement, which will be a first as a boat owner!
Hey- just talked with him. I’ve gotta take some photos to see what sort of tangs I have on the mast end of my shrouds, but there’s one brand (Navtang, I think?) that may run almost $600 per pair, and I’ll need two pairs- hope it’s the cheaper brand on my boat. The compact strand wire would be considerably cheaper- not as strong, but with the double spreader rig, they won’t need to be- leaving performance the only remaining issue. He didn’t think two boats sailing head-to-head, the one with rod rigging won’t just leave the wire rigged boat in the dust, so I’m still thinking. Actually, my wife (head of the House Appropriations Committee) will probably cast the deciding vote on that matter… decisions, decisions!
Oh- almost forgot to ask a question that’s been bugging me… I haven’t called Ballenger Spars yet, but just to debate the differences between rod and cable rigging, is the windage issue really that significant? I don’t think I need exact minute details (like a vector analysis from wind tunnel testing, which probably doesn’t exist), but does it affect your phrf rating where you sail (assuming you sail phrf)? Also- roughly, what is the cost difference if anyone knows?
Ray
Pretty topside paint! Which brand did you use? Having a one-design fleet for Raceweek would be just awesome! We won’t be able to drive the boat anywhere, since I don’t have a suitable tow vehicle. Even driving it back and forth to the hoist with my Mazda CX-7 makes me a bit nervous.. quite a difference that 500-600 lbs makes over a J24!
I have the same exact scenario around Charleston. There’s only one other boat, and I don’t think he’ll race much– so it’s phrf for us, too. I don’t mind, really. We bought the boat to do more extended racing, and as much of it outside the harbor we can manage. I’ll be trying all the tips everybody’s mentioning, so each day out we’ll be learning something new.
No problem, Bruce- I’m still learning how this boat is set up. As long as you guys are still talking about rig tuning, I’m all ears.
Man, that’s nothing near what I thought they’d run. I thought for sure they’d be somewhere in the $2,000-$2,500 range. Is that for sure? I can handle $800 easily. The 205-210′ figure sounds like that may include the two stays, is that true?
Ok- spoke with Randy at Charleston Yachting just now, and he can’t remember which spar I have.. and while he remembers looking at the shrouds and stays, he can’t remember exactly what condition they were in (although he said he could sell me new stuff!). I’m wondering since there’s not really much in the way of one-design around here, is there any point to sticking with rod rigging? He said it was more expensive, produces less windage, but without knowing more exact details, it would be kinda hard to estimate what the different costs would be. I’d have to drop the mast and bring everything in to him to work up an estimate like that, so it’s got me wondering if Buzz at Ballenger spars would be much cheaper. I’m sure both places would produce equivalent quality, so I’d prefer to stay local, if possible. Here are a few photos if anyone can tell which brand of mast and boom I have, I’d appreciate it– there are no markings whatsoever anywhere.
Ray
Ok- I’m thinking our work computers are having issues allowing me to attach photos. I’ll try in a separate post.
Well, it’s not working- envision (if you will), a tall vertical metal black thing with 4 horizontal bars and metal rod holding it all up, then one shorter black stick sticking sorta aftward perpendicular to the vertical.. computers- can’t live with ’em, can’t shoot ’em (at least not at work)! I’ll do this when I get home tonight.
Ray
Wow, Jim- that looks pretty schnazzy. I think I remember reading on this forum somewhere of someone burying all the backstay blocks below deck, which we may do somewhere down the line. I think our current configuration will work for a while. I’m going to figure out the standing rigging first, then port-a-potty next, maybe deck paint after that… All I need is a little spare time! One question about your setup; how are those blocks attached to the transom? I’m guessing there’s a sizable stainless washer on the outside for each one, maybe?
I guess that wouldn’t be a bad idea… There’s no way I’ll still be sailing this boat 20 years from now! I can’t remember if it is Ballenger, but I think it is. I’ll check. Thanks, Bruce.
That’s kinda what I suspected (and have been reading). I’ll contact the guy at Charleston Yachting and see how confident he was in that assessment and if he checked up high at the mast ends.. then maybe put in an order for new cable rigging!
Incidentally, where do you guys go to buy stuff like that? It’s not like there’s a huge demand for O-30 one-design parts out there (I’ve already checked). Do you just drop the mast, remove everything and take it to your local rigger and say, “please duplicate these”?
Ray
I just found out today that the standing rigging is 18-20 years old. It was inspected by a guy at Charleston Yachting (Randy Drafts) about 2 yrs ago, and he said it looks fine. Although, I have no idea how he inspected it or what that entails. I always thought standing rigging should be replaced at least every 15 yrs or so, right?
Same here, Jim- I’d love to see photos.
Ya know, I do have a rod backstay, as well as a rod forestay… thought that strange (and nervous, since I have no idea how old they are). I laid awake much of last night wondering how much replacing all the rod rigging is going to be- I’m assuming it’s all original, but I can find out quickly enough. The way the backstay is now, it’s pretty well centered (at least by eyeball)- I had my wife pull it all the way on, then slowly release it and it seemed to track straight back and up (my view sighting from behind the mast). The problem I quickly discovered with having the cascade over to one side is where to attach it all. That would be something like 3 different blocks (one is the triple) going to just one point. The plates on either side of the transom are pointed and only have one hole. The larger plate in the center has something like 5… Here’s a shot of the transom prior to my moving things around.
Hmm- I’d bet many boats have interesting hardware accomplishing similar things. I’m seeing that in the J24 fleet on the east coast. Bill, I have not yet measured my forestay length, but will do that soon, if for no other reason, to establish a benchmark to get close to good mast tuning- and I think I’m very close already. I took a few photos of the backstay today, and here is what I came up with after a few adjustments of various hardware. I am quickly growing a great collection of shackels, cleavis pins and ring-dings as a result, but I will get that forestay length, pin-to-pin soon. Here is a shot of the backstay after I removed the old cable strops and attached the trimming blocks to the tangs on the transom.
Thanks, Bruce- I remember reading that topic on backstays, and I’ve copied out the two diagrams. I’m going to ask the sailmaker (local UK Halsey guy)- I think he may have had something to do with that forestay. I’m sure he’ll sell me all the hardware I could possibly need!
Ray
Okay- did a few things on the boat today, but mostly took a few photos. Here are two- one of the forestay, and another of the backstay. There are two 6″ long plates that join the toggle to the bow plate, and I took them off, then attached the stay directly to the bow plate (I’m hoping that’s what it’s called?). When you remove those plates, you effectively shorten the forestay by 6 inches, then I went back to attach the backstay, and couldn’t the way it is currently configured (which I’m pretty certain is not correct) and that brings me to the second photo. I can’t for the life of me figure out why someone would rig a backstay like this. There is a plate on the top-center of the transom that all of the tensioning is transmitted to. There is no tension on the backstay chainplates unless you have the backstay completely loose. You can see in the photo (I’ve got the backstay trimmed maybe 20% and the stays are loose and flopping around. It seems to me that you could just remove them, although I think I’d prefer trimming the backstay to both outboard chainplates rather than just the one in the center. Does it matter? Also- I think you can tell from the forestay photo- I’ve almost bottomed-out the turnbuckle. It was almost all the way backed out (about 4 inches of travel to where it is now).
Ray
Thanks, you guys- that’s tons of help! I’ll do this stuff this weekend, and see how she sails–just wish there were another O-30 around to compare…
That sounds familiar (“Tuff luff”), and it is a double-spreader rig. I believe the intermediates are cable, but the lowers and uppers are rod. Now if I determine that the mast is perpendicular to the deck (which by eyeball, it sure looks like it is, and it is straight as an arrow), I should tension the forestay fairly tight? That would be a cinch..
Ray
Oh, forgot to mention- this boat was “Wrinkles” (#202). We’re redocumenting her from Tucson, Az and of course, “Jojo” is from Tucson (so are we).
I’ll have to take photos (I’m at work currently), but the mast-step was recently re-done, and it has jockstraps installed. I am confident that the boat is solid (no springy anything down below). The boat has had good finishes in the local phrf fleet, so I’m not inclined to change much. There is a turnbuckle at the base of the forestay that has a lot of adjustment (I’d estimate that I can effectively shorten it by at least 5 or 6 inches). The track attached is a double-sliding track, made of plastic (uv stable, I hope!), but it can accomodate two headsails- raise a #3, while the #2 is flying, then lower the #2 (which would have been a godsend on our J24 when the wind kicked up around here)- we’re in Charleston, SC… for now. I coulda sworn I read (and saw drawings) suggesting a little prebend is good, but 1-2 deg of mast rake is also all you need. I’ll be goofing around on the harbor this weekend and will experiment with a few things. I’ll also post some photos soon. Thank you for the tips so far!
Ray
