Old School
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Chris, is your .973 in class trim? Panther’s provisional is .98. They should have their official this week or next.
BTW, with the LO phrf of 108, remember that we can count the number of times we get to surf in a year on half a hand….
Anybody else coming to play in the 300? It is only, what, 300 miles in a little boat. How much fun could that be!
Panther is now confirmed. I await other confirmations.
I called Dave Wilby, and he does not have the CAD files. As Jonathan indicated, it was built at Phil’s foils aka fastercomposites. All their work is cnc, so they would have the files. Doubt they would release them, though. I received a quote from them a year ago. It was about $2000 if they reused my post, and about $2800 with a new carbon post. Their machined bearings were $290 for the pair, compared to $50 for the pair from Pride Marine. Note…the pride bearings do need a bit of elbow grease to make fit properly.
I am glad to read about your excitement for the boat!
I completely understand what you are saying about the cost of our sails. Please bear in mind that carbon 3dl’s are going to be at the top end of any budget…there are many less expensive alternatives. Todd Downey would be a great person to go into more detail on this front.
From what I understand, high quality racing dacron is really not that much less expensive than kevlar. The amount of labour is pretty much the same, so costs are similar. Unfortunately, unless you invest in the best dacron, your headsails will suffer in shape fairly quickly, which means that you would need to replace the sails more often, netting a greater expense. Even with the best dacron, you have to be very careful with storing and handling (no flaking or folding), or else it will break down quickly.
A few years ago I spoke to a large number of sailmakers and cloth makers looking for the most cost effective approach, looking for the best cost/performance ratio. For mains, hard racing dacron was good, kevlar or carbon likely better but less tweakable. For overlapping headsails, it became apparent that the more high tech you can afford, the better it will be, which goes along with what you were writing. BUT, the difference between a dacron #2 and a kevlar #2 was about $400. So, if you can get an extra season or two out of the kevlar, then you are much farther ahead.
One option that is available if budget is a real concern is pentex. Pentex is probably more user friendly than racing dacron, but not as good as kevlar.
Partially because of these reasons, I doubt that you will find much support for amending the constitution to limit sail materials. Trust me, I would love to see cheaper sails, but I don’t believe the immediate savings would result in any real savings over five years.
This issue has been debated in the past, and the approach the fleet has taken is to limit new sails. From part C, paragraph 8: “Only three of the declared sails may be purchased within the current calendar year, unless the boat was purchased within the current calendar year, in which case six sails may be new.”
Most people have simply taken them off. Personally, I like having them as it give my butt a place to clench on, and my crew like them for having something to grab when getting onto the rail. I cut out a small section where my main traveller and fine tune are lead to the corner so I have a better angle for the cleats.
We have not weighed boats here, as we don’t have the easy access to the hoists that you guys do. Most of us have to crane in.
Confirmed boats:
Old School
O’Naturel
Ghost
Surfer Girl
(High Anxiety?) (Danesi)There about about seven other interested skippers that have not confirmed yet. Feel free to add your name!
It is time to make the call. Thank you to the five people that voted on the survey, and the few emails I have had about the subject.
3/5 prefer the Freeman. 2/5 prefer a Thurs race
3/5 don’t really care either way, 1/5 indicate it is a dealbreaker against Freeman, 1/5 indicate it is a dealbreaker for Freeman.Based upon these ballots, and given the facts that 1) Race Management has eliminated that Cat3 requirement for us; 2) there really are not many good options for a decent 30 mile course at Oswego; 3) both of the boats that are travelling 400 and 1000 miles respectively have indicated that they would like to do the Freeman; and 4) we will be eligible for more regatta awards, I have made the decision to leave the Freeman Cup as the Long Distance Race for the purposes of the NA Championship.
If you choose to not compete in the Freeman, that is fine, but you will be saddled with a non-discardable DNC score for the NA trophy calcuations.
Now, lets get on with the show!
I was just reminded of something else I would like to see amended. I think that the MOB pole should be removed from the “dry weight shall include” list.
Regarding the A-Sails, those owners purchased the assy’s knowing full well they are not legal for OD. Their choice. But, if the constitution were amended to allow them, a perceived need to own both would undoubtedly appear. As I said before, I am not against assy’s at all, but do not think that we should be allowing them for OD. If your local fleet wants to allow them for OD events, then go for it! But I would be against changing the constitution to reflect it.
Regarding standing rigging, the primary reason for switching would be to save weight. We already have a minimum mast weight (inc standing and running rigging), and a minimum CG, so that should take care of any composites.
I disagree…the forum is the perfect place to discuss this!
The primary reason that assay’s have been voted down in the past is due to costs. We are already playing keep-up with our current quiver of sails, which in some cases are worth more than the boats. Adding another sail or three to the mix is a deal-breaker for several people.
That being said, I have an assy for phrf events, and do agree there is a nice sweet spot. But, I would not want other members to feel forced to invest in more cloth in order to remain competitive.
Here is the text they are proposing for the amendment:
AMENDMENT # 1 – OLSON 30 CLASS ONLY
NOR 4.5 (MANDADORY EQUIPMENT) is changed to read as follows:
NOR 4.5 Olson 30 Class boats racing in the Freeman Cup Race shall be equipped in compliance with the current Olson 30 class Constitution.
NOR 4.7 is deleted.4.5 is the CAT 3 requirement exemption, and 4.7 even eliminates the requirement for heavy weather sails and the cooking appliance.
So, the answer is yes, we will be full and complete competitors in the Freeman. Ready to kick every other boat’s butt.
Jeff Schall with Ritalin asked:
Scott,
Thanks for all the work you are putting into resolving the long distance race issue.
If our class has a CAT3 exemption, can we still compete in the LYRA Freeman Cup? In other words, will Olsons be able to use their score in the long distance race to place in the overall results for the Freeman/LYRA (against other fleets with their handicap ratings based on their compliance to CAT3 equipment), or will the exemption prevent us from using our score for anything other than the O30 NAs?Okay folks…I have some good news. LYRA is willing to grant us an exemption for the Cat 3 requirements. So long as your boat conforms to the O30 minimum requirements plus nav lights, it will be permitted to race the Freeman.
Thus far, I have four voters in the poll. Two prefer the Freeman, two prefer a different race, for one it is a deal breaker, and for the other three they just want to race. Let’s get some discussion going on this.
I should note that one issue with creating our own race is that there are precious few gov’t nav marks in the Oswego area that we can use to create a course. Unless you would rather do five laps of Oswego – Ford Shoals and back.
I understand that some boats are concerned about the Freeman Cup serving as the LD race. I have created a poll for interested parties to complete.
Please go to http://www.olson30.org/poll to express your opinion in the poll, and feel free to discuss it here in this forum topic. For the poll, PLEASE only vote once per boat.
Oh, I forgot to mention that I have people willing to deliver boats from Port Credit to Oswego or Rochester for the NA’s…..
I have sent an email to the LO300 Safety guy about how our boats don’t completely satisfy CAT3 requirements, with some specific questions related to their mandatory minimum equipment requirements. He immediately answered that they are not in the business of limiting participation because of this stuff, but that he would get back to me about my specific questions.
Stay tuned.
FYI, I am in discussions with LYRA organizers about their CAT3 requirements for the Freeman. I am looking for an exemption for our class, with the alternative being running a separate OD LD race on Aug 2.
They have promised me an answer next week.
If we are going to open up the design of the rails, I would suggest we might want to open up materials for the rails as well. It could be as simple as “pulpit(s) and pushpit(s) shall be X inches off deck, contain a minimum of X inches of tubing” or something like that.
I would also like to see the constitution allow stiffening of the deck. Currently, we are not permitted to do anything besides rebuild soft decks. If we were to allow some stiffening members, it could cut down on a pile of work, and could be preventative.
BTW, I believe that the additional longnitudinal bulkhead between the main bulkhead and the forepeak bulkhead that some boats have would have a much larger effect on the perfomance of the boat than jockstraps would.
Al – “Without the jockstrap the hull will flex as the compression load on the mast changes (under sail). That flexure is an enemy of your hull for durability and an enemy of consistent sail trim when racing.
But this is my point…I have a very difficult time seeing the hull flexing any significant amount IF the bulkhead tabbing and step are sound. Now, if you have broken tabbing and a soft step, I totally get it.
And, I do believe that reducing mast compression is important in any sailboat. This is why so many high end boats have gone to masthead halyard locks instead of deck clutches. With our boats, the benefits of reducing compression would be more significant in the single spreader rigs, as the double spreader setups are inherently more stable.
The Freeman will serve as our LD race. It is overnight on August 1. Then the three days of course racing Aug 3-5. These days will serve as the NA’s.
IF YOU WANT TO COMPETE FOR THE LYRA OVERALL TROPHY, you need to race in one of the feeder races that occur on July 31. Theses races begin at Henderson Harbour, NY and Rochester, NY. These races are not part of the NA’s. Rochester has a good hoist to launch from. Henderson has a travel lift, perhaps a crane. Old School will most likely be partipating in the Rochester race.
Over the next couple of days I will update the NA’s page with this year’s info.
Well, most of the crew is onboard. Wife has not said she is not supportive, so it looks like Old School is in!
Synthetic lifelines are specifically allowed in our rules.
Changing over to a pushpit with a gate is not something that I would personally be interested in. We would have to figure out a way to keep the weight equal between versions. I believe this modification was discussed at the 2008 agm, and it failed. If you really want to see it discussed again, draft up an amendment proposal so we can get it distributed before the agm. The discussion could happen here, then have your proxies ready.
The new page is a bit messed up, but the info is here:
hehehe…welcome to big boats with headstay foils!
Two points:
1) I beg to differ with Bruce…the rig does like to be adjusted. Perhaps not as much as the 24, but I play with my headstay and lowers tension pretty regularly.
2) Prebend is for suckers. A touch of inversion at the dock is what most mains I have seen are asking for.Of course, each headstay and boat are different, but my turnbuckle is pretty far out for light, and about half way tight for heavier conditions
Congrats! Which boat did you get?
I am unsure what you mean by two tracks for the forestay. How much adjustment do you have left in the turnbuckle? If it is max’d, then you MIGHT need to inspect the frame under the mast step.
On Old School, there is probably less than one foot of “flop” with no backstay on at the dock.
I am looking into it.
Note that the NOR specifically exempts 3.20 and 3.23.2. From what I understand, you are supposed to comply with 3.24.1 by law anyways….. As far as 3.21 goes, it does not indicate that you need to have everything plumbed together….have a water jug somewhere and a marine pump attached somewhere.
Any boat that races in the 300 will also have to be Cat3. The 300’s requirements have fewer exemptions than LYRA has.
Scot
