Bruce Hubble
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With info from Todd Downey and help from the local crew at Quantum Traverse City (headquarters for Quantum Design), I’m going with an M purchase this winter.
Reasons: The durability should be up because the load paths are custom to the build of the sail. The Mx is more of a ‘stock’ material build…and thus has more strings to make up for that. The M will thus be a lighter, but stronger sail. I went with a single full upper batten. The shape/design specs will be Todd’s.
Pricing..work with your rep….a prepaid order may get an M for Mx price this winter. Now what do you think?
Regarding Dacron…Let’s get real..they poop out the shape in the first year. So they still look good, but can’t hold the desired shape. So saving $500 vs plastic is not worth it for competitive purposes. I think I’ll get 4 to 5 years on the plastic sail with almost assured design shape intact. My 4 to 5 year old dacron looks good, but the shape was gone a long time ago. It is worthy of delivery only. If your dacron is over two years old..time for a new one..so have you saved?
Lake Charlevoix! Northern Lower Michigan….about 150 miles NW of Sarnia…easy road trip. 2nd weekend in June is our big regatta the NA’s could join in with, but we would host any date that does not conflict. We have experience with Lightning Great Lakes Champs & Laser Masters regattas. Low cost crane/launch and we are not looking to make money for a clubhouse. (we don’t have one…on purpose)
We do have a 400 membership and marina facilities at our disposal. June has the best wind..18kts is high end, with 12 low. July slows to 10. August is lower, Sept builds again to be like 12-18. Perfect clear water. Not large waves due to the shape of the lake. We are located so Ohio, Indiana, Minnesota, Illinois could join in easily..as well as the Kingston group. I made a tow trip from here to Toronto…very easy day trip (except Canadian Customs..but that is a very LONG story) US Customs doesn’t care about your boat. Canada thinks you sold it and are avoiding taxes/duties..just a hint!
Another thing on stanchions: I got rid of my wire lifelines. Dynemma 75 qualifies for offshore racing specs now, so do yourself a favor and get rope! I used Robline 3/16″ which is good to something like 4000 lbs. I’m on my second season and looks like it will be good for a couple more before replacing due to wear/sun, if then. $100 does the whole boat easily and is DIY! Wire is not safe.
Regarding bilge pumps…technically the bilge exit is out the stern drain and not directed into the cockpit. Sure there is some backup, but that is handled by the second drain. Chi Mac has this rule…but it applies, in my opinion, to direct discharge into the cockpit to have the separate cockpit drains serve to drain the cockpit. Olson 30 is save as is unless some inspector disagrees out there?
Regarding stanchions: If you have the stock aluminum ones..buy a new set of stainless ones. They press fit and do not come out without a bunch of working/twisting. Garhaurer 24 1/2″ is what I bought after a couple of the aluminum ones broke. The stainless won’t break and will take a bit of bending (damn dock posts!) They are not heavy; nice chrome; $30 each.
Reviewing the two different boat charts, I’m guessing the differences are related to a program change on the 1993 VPP program. I note the heel angles and best vmg differences as evidence. Tractor refers to the aperture…possibly a sail drive? These two charts would only be good for you makeing your own predictions based on your experience and the charts for guidance. VMG for a wind speed..using the best angle YOU like. On runs: @10 knts there is very little VMG difference between 113 & 148 AWA. Waves would make a difference. Boat speed difference is VERY apparent… 6.2 down to 5.4, but near the same result on VMG.
Points of sail should not change. Speed…you fill in the blank. BUT..you can make your own polar at that point. Angles will be the same. I think you are putting too much emphasis on the inboard having drag & weight. There are times when that weight can help…like keeping the rudder in the water! :)
Point of sail, point of sail, point of sail= VMG
I dare say no one can match (or should try) the speeds. New vs old sails for instance! It is a reference only…leave the speeds OUT!
A personal column chart: (pasted to bulkhead)
TWS AWS AWA TWA (upwind)
TWS AWS AWA TWA (downwind)Fill in @ 6 knts/8knts/10knts & so on below each. You can add VMG and BS only if using GPS, not a knotmeter. Those speeds will be a reference guide. If you don’t have a wind instrument…you need to fix your windex to a true 30 degrees AWA (60 degrees spread) and get used to figuring out where the AWA’s are downwind. Upwind…sailing tails anyway. (don’t forget wind shear messes with the angle up there)
The outboard would not be different. The only difference might be a tenth of a knot of boat speed at lower wind speeds. The sailing characteristics are the same. Everyyone should remember this is a velocity PREDICTION program. The speeds are not real, but are relative targets to angles. This is why you use this chart to make your own charts. I would guess the optimum speed for VMG is 5.8 knots..for example. We know we can easily go 6.5 by cracking off 3-5 degeees, but VMG suffers. This is all about VMG. That is why 85 apparent is best VMG downwind with light air..but look at the true angle for the same VMG and all will be clearer!
My boat has a radius and the keel was brought to proper shape long ago by the previous owner.
If you race PHRF..the J/95 is quite a competitor. They rate the same as the O IB @ 108 LMPHRF. We beat them in light air, but lost them in heavy. But, that was because I had 5 on board…needed 6 or 7 to keep the boat flat.
Once we have a bulkhead spreadsheet..Scott can ‘bury’ the polars somewhere for later publication.
Rather than use the graph…make your own bulkhead chart in Excel using the upwind/downwind best angles at the various wind speeds; also showing target speeds and vmg. I find the speeds credible until 18 knts…then waves, etc make them so, so for the O30. Remember..these are predictions!
I’m missing the graphs…I have them, but have to do a dreaded windows search. At least you have the speed stuff. BTW…GIGO…speeds are predictions…the O30 is capable of going faster than these, especially downwind.
I have one…sistership. I’ll send it to Scott to post.
We use cam cleats (single) for our spin halyards on the mast. The key is placing a good size ‘bullseye’ fairlead real close to the cam..BELOW it; maybe 2 inches. To let the halyard run, just place the line to the side of the cleat. It has never let go in 4 years (knock on wood).
We use a spinlock triple for the Asail tack,genoa (& topping lift) with a cam cleat backing the gen. Security and easy controlled releases. We did have the gen slip with the spinlock with 6mm. The cam is the easier fix and it was already there.
Do not use D1 Lewmars..ever! The handles break and are not replaceable. Get the D2 model. These WILL hold the small line. The D1 did…but the new Lewmar is a POS without a handle. Luckily the retailer took it back and gave full credit toward the spinlock… Rigging Only is a great place! (Jeff is the best)
@todd…Traverse City is 50 miles away..have a quote. But will take your Q advice for sure on how they should build it. email: sparwars@att.net
Sorry everyone for getting off topic.
@AL: yeah, we do all that..I put on adjustable leads first thing on the boat. BTW GANG: Garhauer makes an excellent set…both sides including blocks/cars/cleats was around $600. I think my tri-radial genoa is just tired. It is being retired to light duty. Now have a 148 that pulls/trims great.
Would aft rake flatten the mid draft of a genoa?
Adding Al & Todd together makes me sure I’ll add some extra. My light air helm is very light and sometimes a bit mushy, depending on sail trim…too tight and helm is gone. I know that is slow.
I’m going to add another half inch or so to the forestay on Tuesday and see what happens. I do need a little bit of bend to flatten the main between the draft stripes. That might offset any weather helm all by itself.
A main is my next buy. Mx or ??
Todd…are you saying more rake than the Ullman tune? Is this to get more prebend? I don’t seem to have a problem pointing..but always looking for tips!
For most angles of heel..I’m not pullng the tiller much. More rake would increase that.
Confused because I didn’t have a pointing issue…was just comparing performance to a J/95 that will be coming up again soon.
To get me back on the thread…I think all know that the olson HAS to be brought up to speed first after a tack or you will never point.
I’ve got a J/95 in my area that I’ll be racing against Labor Day weekend. First meeting was a near draw. PHRF rates them the same as my O. I got a new heavy 1 that ought to even us up this time. They took 2nd and I got 3rd to a Melges 24. It was blowing pretty good..W/L’s. The J/95 A sail looks kind of small. I’m used to beating up on Tripp 33’s and Bene 36.7’s when I get in their fleets. :)
Kicker helps put in twist in light air..to reply to KISS. Plus it is required equipment for the ChiMac.
I have a GoPro also. Don’t want to document destruction…but. And as a comment…do you always have the vang on that hard? It appeared to be so hard it was doing all the sheeting. I leave a bit to the sheet..am I wrong?
I put on a TackTick wind last year. I used the ‘lower’ echelon model…”micro?”.
It is right on…wireless…and only needs simple 12v hookup. About $600 US.
If you are using a Windex…same thing…just inside the ‘paddles’ in medium and outside the paddles in light. The ‘instrument’ saves my neck!
Who is sail # 7030 or 7020? This A3 came off that boat.
I didn’t get a chance to use the A Sail this weekend as expected. The “tour” race was cancelled..no wind. On Sunday, it was W/L’s, so I canned the idea of ‘learning’ an A Sail during a buoy race.
I delivered the boat home today (by myself)…used the auto pilot and flew the A3 with no main in 14kts of air. I hit 8.6 knots on the gps..impressive for zero crew and auto steering! I have to work on the single handed take down..sail got wet..hate when that happens.
What was cool about the sail is that it DOES sail downwind pretty well. I started out at 120 apparent and the speed brought it to 90, then I turned down 20 degrees actual and was pretty much running downwind with the waves at 7.5 without the main. I gybed it probably 10 times with zero problems…I think I like it!
The A3 could be a great weapon in a blow downwind…my conclusion.
Now…how big an A1-A2 can you have?
Just finished a weekend regatta in 16-18 knots with waves. Top speed was 11.1 Pretty much held the apparent wind at 165 to keep the boat moving and it is more stable moving!
In lighter stuff…DDW is slow..get up to speed at AWA of say 110 and take dips down as you can…say to 140. If you slow..it take a while to get back up to speed, so don’t!
John, do you use the A sail when running? If so..just when wind is up or always?
Mine is cut smaller for reaching legs…but wondering about a larger A Sail. I don’t use a sprit, so no penalty. Is the sail area about the same as a Sym AP? I saw 93 for a rating, but what is a stock O30 in your area? Lake Michigan PHRF is 105 for an OB. The sprit would probably take a 3 to 6 second penalty in LMPHRF, but not 12.My A3 is:
ALU: 37.40 LUFF
ALE: 33.83 Leech
AMG: 14.28 Max Girth
AF: 18.75 FootUsed at 70-110 apparent.
I would think you would have to have a higher cut clew in order to pull the clew outward if sheeted hard. We use heavy snatch blocks to barberhaul when reaching off close hauled..but you wouldn’t use them in buoy racing..only long leg port to port legs as you would have to disconnect the clew at every tack. I think jibs would be a different story..use an open ring the sheet goes through..maybe use the twings?
I sure would like to know the measurements on that A Sail video. Mine is a smaller sail for sure!
