Bruce Hubble
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If your deck is that soft..you have a core issue. Mine is a rock.
The fore and aft bow and arrow is a compression on the deck at the chain plates. Limiting the ‘rise’ of the deck will be the best solution (if you have a solid deck). A weak deck had better have the BOD or the deck will explode. :)
The BOD keeps the hull from coming inward IF the mast is pushing the bottom of the boat downward. I believe the turnbuckle deck connection to the front of my mast holds the deck down and is doing the same job as the BOD. If the deck can’t rise, the sides are not coming inward. Boats that have cabinet tab problems..you have to look at how you have been setting up the boat. The tabs are breaking for a reason..most likely the deck rising. Do you have the deck secured to the mast or to a keel bolt? If not..there is the problem. I’m thinking a vertical ROD with a turnbuckle installed from the deck to a keel bolt is probably the ultimate fix. Replacing the 2×4 frame is mandatory in my book. It was a ridiculous joke to think it could hold up a mast.
IMHO: Jocks do not make sense. You cannot possibly offset the compression of the mast with them. In fact..you ARE succeeding in transmitting loads to the bulkhead/chainplates!! Think of a bow and arrow. If ANY movement of the base downwards happens..it goes to the chainplates..which will react as an inward movement. Here comes the BOD to resist that. Bandaids at best.
Let’s get real. The compression needs a solid base. The job is to spread the force across the frames. The frames have to be sound. The stock design puts 90% of the force on ONE frame. That frame has to be VERY strong. If you still have the original..you have a shaved 2×4 supporting a ton or better of weight. See the problem? A metal plate across the 3 frames will not work to spread the load. It will flex as the 2×4 fails. I will report when I can analyze what my frame replacement produces. I removed and replaced with a twice as thick (3 1/2″) and SOLID laminated mahoghany beam that reaches to within an inch of the bottom of the bilge. All tabbed and glassed. I say..forget the jocks..beam me up scotty.
Okay..I’ve added fuel to the discussion. What say you?
Dale, Thanks for the reply. This came as is when I bought the boat used. Tune wise, I still have a lot of threads on the turnbuckle, so I feel it is a needed piece. I’m guessing it was added to give additional slack in the forestay for light air and downwind. I usually tune to have 4 to 6″ of deflection of the forestay when the backstay is just slack and yet have the mast still straight up. This year may be a new tune because I no longer have a soft mast step frame. I’m really hoping for a tighter forestay this year when the backstay is applied.
Sorry Ray for hijacking your thread!
BTW Gang: I’ve just added 3″ of lead to the bottom of my keel to raise my stability index for ORR. Inboard sistership assigned stability to me was 100.8 and I needed 103. 3″ adds 80 lbs for the record. I’m having an incline test done around May 17th and I will post a topic when I get results.
Question to others..is my forestay/turnbuckle setup like yours? Note the cast piece is not on Ray’s boat.
Ray, If you have a black anodized rig..it is most likely a Ballenger.
If you contact him, he will need to know if any modifications have been made. I believe all original boats were single spreader and the cap shrouds did not terminate at the top of the mast.
MANY masts have been modified. Some purchased a ‘true’ double spreader rig. Some modified the single spreader rigs with a kit to make them double. Some raised the cap shrouds higher on the mast.
My particular boat has a true Ballenger double spreader rig. It has a single upper shroud and a lower a shroud that terminates below the lower spreader. These are both rod. Then there is the intermediate that is wire and terminates below the upper spreader via the lower spreader route first. They all go to a chain plate with two holes. The intermediate shares the inboard hole with the lower shroud. I share this as an example of what’s out there for different rigs. It is NOT one design for masts. There are rules, but there are several combinations that can result.
With your notes..call Ballenger. You won’t be disappointed with the help!
Do you have a Ballenger rig? If so, you can still get rigging from Ballenger. That is the best way. http://ballengerspars.com/
Go rod again! Zero stretch.
Stay with rod for all but the backstay. The intermediates are wire.
Someone went to a lot of work to add that center attachment point. What a waste..and how are you going to control the outboard?
My boat has one added thru deck eye for the triple block and it is near one tab on the deck. The rest attaches to the original tabs. The two singles can attach to the tabs as well..just add clevis’s. Much cleaner and you will have an opening to the outboard.
YOu have the same toolbox as me. LOL.
It is looking better! I still recommend one tang be for the bitter end and the other for the cascade. It helps center the backstay. Only requires a block at the backstay rod. (assuming you still have a rod backstay..getting rid of that should be on your ‘to do’ list)
Here are two pictures of my forestay turnbuckle equipment. Hope this solves your mystery!
Wow..that forestay plate is weird! I’ll take a picture of my forestay turnbuckle tomorrow and send it to you. It has an additional toggle, but it is not anywhere near the length of those plates! Plan on dumping them and adding a toggle.
The backstay is screwy. Those two wires going up from your two tacks can go. You need a block at the top (wire block for strength!) and figure out a way to run a line from one of the stern plates up to the block and attach to the cascade you have. The cascade is anchored on the other tack. The good news is it look like you have lots of the right kind of blocks.
There is a forum topic on backstays…look for it. There were a couple of opinions on how to rig.
LOL: as a PS:
I will pay dues (if you pass this) the day outboard boats are required to add 250 lbs of lead to their bilge when competing with an inboard in the fleet.
Please put this up to a vote. ; )
I understand the concerns with one design and weight and the slippery slope. But to ignor a design comfort/safety flaw for weight? Nah..that is silly.
Allow an original design with openings between with rope gates. The two bars weight? 3 lbs? The replacing rope? 1/2 lb? What if I made a carbon original type?
Just do it for the outboard! (I’m arguing for an outboard..WTF!)(the only inboard of the group)
The only wording that needs to be fixed is “original”. Define it for the pushpit as similar to original size, weight and position. (the keel allows tolerances!) Gates are allowed.
Personally…change the rule to Must Have A Pushpit that encloses the stern section as per original equipment…may have lifeline gates that are secure.
I guess not much help unless you have an elliptical. I’ll do some search for the spade, but I’m betting it’s not out there!
forgot to add: all of this is to have a straigher forestay and helm balance when the wind pipes up! You can adjust your backstay ‘slop’ at full ‘off’ to leave the forestay with a 6″ deflection and be on the right page for light stuff and downwind running. The backstay tension is as big a deal on these boats as the shroud tension is on the J/24.
Scot..adjusting on the Olson is to tweak and so simple in comparison to the J/24. Ray is used to adjusting for EVERY race for the current condition. A J/24 won’t sail at all with the wrong upper/lower shroud tune. You would be left in the dust if you ‘tweaked’ like an Olson. The Olson tweaks are for balancing helm…much easier to detect and fine tune. I do that as well, Scot…some day we will meet on the course! LOL.
Ray..prebend on the Olson will ruin forestay tension when you put on the backstay. Just the opposite of what you want, of course. You want a straight up stick as the general rule. Think of the J/24 heavy air shroud tension guide. It makes a stiff mast and more upright so that the backstay pulls the mast back, not just the top of the mast aft and let the middle go forward. Welcome to the masthead rig as well!
LOL…NOW I know what you are talking about!!!! LOL.
That is a Tuff Luff or Harken Luff Track. No pics needed. It was all about terminology.
Here is a link to the Ullman Tuning. You set the forestay turnbuckle to make the backstay/rake the right distance. http://www.olson30.org/the-boat/tips-and-tweaks/ullman
To start with: Shorten the forestay so the mast is straight up and you have maybe 6-8″ of deflection. Start there! Then measure the main halyard to the corner of stern/deck per Ullman guide. Adjust forestay to get the correct length and go sailing. I think you know how to fix helm from there. Prebend will be an inch or less. Shroud tensions are usually tight, no need to adjust them like the J/24 for wind conditions. The diagonal is only medium tight. Double or single spreader?
Funny about the twin track! Call it a luff groove.
Old School made a point also..a weak point in the boat is the frame under the mast step. It most likely is failing, although it probably by itself is not making that much slop in the forestay unless the step is in on the bottom of the sump!
I posted a group of pictures on my last fall replacement of my frame. Look for that as well for future reference.
DO POST a picture of your setup.
I’m confused. You have a sliding track that your forestay is attached to? Send a picture, I have to see this. I’ve never seen one, much less on an Olson.
From memory, the forestay length is in the 38′ range.
Here is a link to specs: http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=944
You should not have a track. It should be a tack, just like the J/24. Unlike the J/24 (my previous boat), the Olson does not like prebend. Prebend makes for a softer forestay. Rake is used to balance the helm, not prebend. The Ullman/Olson tune guide gives a spec for backstay length. There is a forum topic in general topics about where the step should be. 24 & 3/4 from the forward bulkhead rings a bell, but check it out.
Where are you?
I think drawings are available. Have you found them?
Derek..what is your sail number, assuming it has stayed the same.
Great Idea..The Olson is not like other boats that you stand all the way to the stern. I don’t know if the class rules require wire lifelines any more, but that should be changed to synthetic at the same time as ORC/ORR/IRC now allow them. How do you propose to alter your pushpit? The current one doesn’t look like it would stand without major modification/braces.
Chris..do you have a tri color mast head light? I have one (with led bulb, aftermarket) that lights up the windex perfectly at night.
One mention, as long as we are talking about wires coming out of the mast. The first Olson I looked at had a cracked mast below the deck level. It appeared that the crack was because the wire exit was a hole in front of the mast. Mast pumping was working the hole and it cracked the mast from the hole to around 1/2 way on both sides. If your mast has a front hole…keep an eye on it. Mine are on each side.
Just checked the TransPac/Tahiti requirement: 115 minimum!
If you have not been measured…you need to asap before you do all the mods.
Lilya…is TransPac using ORR for the race? If so, have you cleared the Stability Index for your boat yet with the race organizer? Olson outboards are around a 104 rating. Some of these offshore events are requiring 110. I heard directly from USSA/ORR that TransPac wasn’t allowing Olson’s again…just a heads up.
I’m adding 3″ of ballast to the bottom of my keel (95lbs) to get past 103 for the Chicago Mackinac Race.
Lake Michigan PHRF:
Roller Furling Jibs may receive a credit. A boat that carries a luff roller furled head sail with the
furling drum mounted above the deck may receive a 3 sec/nm credit. The headsail LP may not be
greater than that allowed for a base handicap without penalty and no credit is applied for a headsail
smaller than the maximum allowed. Except for a storm jib, the roller furled headsail must be the
only headsail carried while racing. The sail may not be made of exotic material such as a scrim type
membrane.I highly recommend at least a three year plan. By this time of year Spar Wars has filled it’s 2012 schedule.
Distance is not an issue to us…I bought my boat from Lake Grapevine..it just might like a return visit!
Time is everything: plan out the future.
